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Orgy of Capacitors: The Cap Thread - Page 22

post #316 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flu_fighter View Post

I have a question for Jon L regarding the K75-10 bypassed with the Vcaps teflon caps. How is the PRAT for this particular combination?

 


Hmm.  I would say PRAT is not as good as Vcap teflon by itself but better than K75 by itself or most PIO's by themselves.  If one plays lots of rock/electronica/dance, one can certainly get better PRAT thann K75/Vcap combo.  

post #317 of 441

Thanks for the reply Jon. What would you suggest for a similar sounding combo that has better PRAT?

 

I am looking at values of 3.3uf 250volts, but with limited space in the chassis.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L View Post





Hmm.  I would say PRAT is not as good as Vcap teflon by itself but better than K75 by itself or most PIO's by themselves.  If one plays lots of rock/electronica/dance, one can certainly get better PRAT thann K75/Vcap combo.  



 

post #318 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flu_fighter View Post

 

 

I am looking at values of 3.3uf 250volts, but with limited space in the chassis.
 



 

How about something like this?  Good caps, neutral with good PRAT and small..

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/2PCS-3-3uF-250V-VISHAY-ERO-MKP-1845-Polypropylene-Caps-/350336451398
 

 

post #319 of 441

Thanks Jon, I decided to go with the K75-10 bypassed with the FT1s first, afterall they are cheap, so it would not hurt to try out that combo. Will try what you recommended me if I feel that K75-10 combo is too slow for me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L View Post



How about something like this?  Good caps, neutral with good PRAT and small..

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/2PCS-3-3uF-250V-VISHAY-ERO-MKP-1845-Polypropylene-Caps-/350336451398
 

 



 

post #320 of 441

Funny I don't find the K75-10/FT1 combo slow at all and I'm using planar magnetic/ribbon speakers which tend to expose any and all flaws upstream without exception. That combination takes a bloody long time to burn in however, many hundreds of hours before they settle for good. The combination will sound weird at times for a long time, have patience during this period.....when they finally settle though ...the combo sounds terrific (especially with tube gear). For the cost it's the best bang for buck combo going IMHO ...I much prefer them to CD or Sprague Vit Q (vintage stuff) but that's just me.

 

All Mundorf caps are made in Germany...the lower cost MKP series (white casing with red lettering) is one of the most counterfeited caps in the Far East (for good reason). The knock offs do not sound anything like the real deal unfortunately.

 

What gear are you using flu_fighter ?

 

Peete.

post #321 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete View Post

Funny I don't find the K75-10/FT1 combo slow at all and I'm using planar magnetic/ribbon speakers which tend to expose any and all flaws upstream without exception. That combination takes a bloody long time to burn in however, many hundreds of hours before they settle for good. The combination will sound weird at times for a long time, have patience during this period.....when they finally settle though ...the combo sounds terrific (especially with tube gear). For the cost it's the best bang for buck combo going IMHO ...I much prefer them to CD or Sprague Vit Q (vintage stuff) but that's just me.

 

All Mundorf caps are made in Germany...the lower cost MKP series (white casing with red lettering) is one of the most counterfeited caps in the Far East (for good reason). The knock offs do not sound anything like the real deal unfortunately.

 

What gear are you using flu_fighter ?

 

Peete.

 

I'm using the Eastern Electric Minimax Dac ---> Schiit Lyr ----> LCD2.

 

I am going to try out the K75-10/TF1 combo for the tube coupling cabs for the Eastern Electric Minimax dac
 

 

post #322 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by flu_fighter View Post



 

I'm using the Eastern Electric Minimax Dac ---> Schiit Lyr ----> LCD2.

 

I am going to try out the K75-10/TF1 combo for the tube coupling cabs for the Eastern Electric Minimax dac
 

 


That should work very well......try and measure if any DC offset is present at the DAC's outputs (before and after the cap swap). If it's very low (less than 5 mV) then no need to worry but if it's high (greater than 8 mV) you may need to add bleeder resistors (use very HQ slit foil types for this application). I know a lot of folks do not believe shunt resistors have a sonic effect but in my experience they absolutely have an impact if of course you have to tame some DC offset. It's best not to add stuff when it is not needed...less is more in some instances.

 

Peete.

 

post #323 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete View Post

That should work very well......try and measure if any DC offset is present at the DAC's outputs (before and after the cap swap). If it's very low (less than 5 mV) then no need to worry but if it's high (greater than 8 mV) you may need to add bleeder resistors (use very HQ slit foil types for this application). I know a lot of folks do not believe shunt resistors have a sonic effect but in my experience they absolutely have an impact if of course you have to tame some DC offset. It's best not to add stuff when it is not needed...less is more in some instances.

 

Peete.

 

 

Thanks Peete, finally got my caps and had them installed in my dac. Pre-burn in impressions: I'd say this combo does kinda make my dac sound sorta close to vinyl, but they still sound kinda rough around the edges. Still needs a lot of burn in. 

 

What's the burn in time like? Ballpark figure?

 

 

post #324 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L View Post


None of the VCap teflons, tin or copper, can be described as "bassy" caps, but that's because there is no bass slop or muddyness to give the impression of more bass quantity.  I wouldn't say CuTFnecessarily has more bass quantity than tin, but the tonality from top to bottom is warmer and richer.  At any rate, it shouldn't sound leaner than tin teflon after eventual break-in, to which I cannot give an exact number of hours.  Unless you compared the Cu and Tin of same value in same amp, it's going to be hard to really compare bass.  Also, make sure the uF value is adequate (hopefully by a big margin) in your application in order to avoid early bass rolloff.

 


You hit on something that has had me curious: just exactly what is recommended for optimizing (increasing, refining, deepening) bass in the uF value adjustment for coupling caps?  Is there a rule-of-thumb? ....like doubling the capacitance of the original cap, ....for a .22uF, bump it up to .47uF ??  Can this also cause problems, like a frequency shift at the top end?  For an amp, is there a situation when this is ill advised?  Please elaborate. Thanks.

 

post #325 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandro View Post


You hit on something that has had me curious: just exactly what is recommended for optimizing (increasing, refining, deepening) bass in the uF value adjustment for coupling caps?  Is there a rule-of-thumb? ....like doubling the capacitance of the original cap, ....for a .22uF, bump it up to .47uF ??  Can this also cause problems, like a frequency shift at the top end?  For an amp, is there a situation when this is ill advised?  Please elaborate. Thanks.

 


Try reading this thread for more info:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/51667-formula-calculating-value-capacitor.html

 

However, there is a lot of room for ranges, wiggle room, and just "HOW FLAT to 20 Hz."  In general, 0.22-0.47 uF are the values used most, and going from 0.22 to 0.47 won't end up with a big difference in subjective sound quality or bass extension.  As you go with larger caps, the cost goes up, and you ARE going through more "stuff" (capacitor foils and dielectric), so theoretically you don't want to oversize caps way too much for no good reason.  

 

post #326 of 441

Alright this seems more of a crossover cap discussion but i think some of the equations might help with power supply filtering.  I have a hard time ordering stuff online(no credit card) so im stuck with Radioshack but im not one of those audiophiles that worries about 1%.  How much capacitance should i use for a cMoy(for now) pushing either headphones from 32-55 ohm with 25.4 volts full wave rectified transformer.  I think the easiest way to figure this out would be using a low pass calculator, i guess im aiming for 12 DB at 30Khz which would be enough filtering to not mess up anything important.  Im wondering what values i should enter for ohms on the calculator, im guessing the lowest load the amp will push.

Thanks and i understand i should be using a chip based power circuit put again im limited to radioshack.

post #327 of 441

Jon

Great review a big commitment of time and energy.

 Your common sense approach is very refreshing in these tech spec times we live in.

 in your review i did not notice the uf values of the Bypass caps you used

0.33uf ? or larger

What percentage were the bypass caps? were they a percentage of the caps they were bypassing?

When you mentioned Solens that was  usal choice for bypass with Mundorf Silver Oils

What series of Solens they make 3 or more series  PPExx 630 v series?  

Thanks again for your good honest work

   

Dr B.

post #328 of 441
Hey Dr. B - Just plugged back into this thread to see if there was any new stuff. Fascinating topic! IMO and experience, as far as bypass caps, its a real c(r)ap shoot! I have used Mundorf silver/oils as bypass on my speakers with very good results when bypassing Ampohm paper/oils but not good with Obbligatto's. As far as the value, I dont think it really matters. The main thing is that the bypass cap is a 'small value' compared to the cap it is bypassing. I would try small (cheaper) values first. Good luck! I think the bottom line is dont bypass unless you hear a distinct improvement. It could do more harm than good.
post #329 of 441

Jon L,

 

Not sure if you are still following this thread.

 

I am a little curious about bypass caps.  I notice that you have used polypropolene caps and teflon caps as bypass caps, but haven't used polystyrene caps that I am aware of.  Any reason why styrene caps would be a good choice?  They would seem like a nice in-between choice that might blend well with certain caps.

 

I have also seen you write that you only bypass a cap when you are not happy with its performance.  Last I knew, you're favorite coupling cap were V-cap teflon.  Do you prefer a V-cap alone, or a rich sounding non-teflon with a small teflon bypass to sweeten the detail?
 

post #330 of 441
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lehmanhill View Post

Jon L,

 

Not sure if you are still following this thread.

 

I am a little curious about bypass caps.  I notice that you have used polypropolene caps and teflon caps as bypass caps, but haven't used polystyrene caps that I am aware of.  Any reason why styrene caps would be a good choice?  They would seem like a nice in-between choice that might blend well with certain caps.

 

I have also seen you write that you only bypass a cap when you are not happy with its performance.  Last I knew, you're favorite coupling cap were V-cap teflon.  Do you prefer a V-cap alone, or a rich sounding non-teflon with a small teflon bypass to sweeten the detail?
 

 

Styrene caps can make nice bypass caps as well, but as usual it can be hit-or-miss depending on the situation.

 

Looking around to see what I'm doing with bypasses in various gear currently, I've got:

 

VCap CuTF bypassed with Russian FT-1 teflons in single-ended pentode amp

Jantzen Superior Z bypassed by FT-3 teflons in output buffer

Penta Lab Teflons bypassed with Aura-T teflon in First Watt B-1 preamp

AudioCap Theta bypassed by FT-1 teflon in SET coupling

Siemens MKV aluminum in oil cap bypassed by VCap TFT in parallel feed output

VCap teflon bypassed by FT-1 in tube preamp

 

I don't really have a set "favorite," but I do favor small FT-1 as bypasses in many situations because they usually don't do harm and can help.  

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