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Do I Have To Use Foobar To Get The Best Audio Quality?

post #1 of 20
1/9/08 at 3:52am
Thread Starter 
Hey everyone, I've seen that guide on how to make iTunes sound better by streaming the music through Foobar and I thought it was great. The only thing is I am really comfortable using J River Media Center, I've been using it for years and I still love it . Foobar is alright, but I haven't found a skin that is functional (especially with artwork) and that looks decent. Is there anyway to stream the audio output to Foobar from J River Media Center similar to how it's done in iTunes with that guide? I want to have it all setup before my amp gets here in a couple weeks. I've heard that you don't really need Foobar for great audio quality if you already have a good sound card (I have an Auzen X-Fi Prelude), is this true? And will I be just fine with J River Media Center which I know and love? And if anybody know any great, functional skins for Foobar, feel free to post them.
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post #2 of 20
1/9/08 at 4:26am
I use foobar with the FofR skin, I think it is great and looks awesome too!

Here's a link to it: Foobar2000 Blog » FofR Version 0.9
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post #3 of 20
1/9/08 at 6:09am
I am using Jriver Media Center for years now and with an ASIO capable sound card or an ASIO over kernel streaming mapper you will can get optimal sound quality directly. No need to stream the data anywhere.

Cheers

Thomas
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post #4 of 20
1/9/08 at 2:16pm
> Do I Have To Use Foobar To Get The Best Audio Quality?

No.

Since iTunes doesn't support ASIO or Kernel Streaming for output, there is some reason to stream from it to Foobar. No reason to do that for J.River MC.

Foobar's developer has written that he doesn't think that Foobar should sound better than other players using the same output.

Bill
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post #5 of 20
1/9/08 at 2:25pm
So my understanding is such that with vista we no longer have to resort to ASIO or KS as kmixer is gone, and we could use any player with directsound or waveout with equally good quality. Could anyone confirm this?
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post #6 of 20
1/9/08 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikoLayer View Post
So my understanding is such that with vista we no longer have to resort to ASIO or KS as kmixer is gone, and we could use any player with directsound or waveout with equally good quality. Could anyone confirm this?
Your understanding is not correct. Check out the "ASIO 4All" thread on this page which has a nice chart of the sound path on XP and Vista.
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post #7 of 20
1/9/08 at 7:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomaspf View Post
I am using Jriver Media Center for years now and with an ASIO capable sound card or an ASIO over kernel streaming mapper you will can get optimal sound quality directly. No need to stream the data anywhere.

Cheers

Thomas
Does J River Media Center need a plugin or anything? My sound card has an ASIO logo on it's box, so I would assume that it's ASIO native (Auzen X-Fi Prelude).
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post #8 of 20
1/9/08 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
Your understanding is not correct. Check out the "ASIO 4All" thread on this page which has a nice chart of the sound path on XP and Vista.
The question is can anyone tell the difference with the new Vista sound path vs. ASIO or KS.
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post #9 of 20
1/9/08 at 7:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaughter View Post
The question is can anyone tell the difference with the new Vista sound path vs. ASIO or KS.
According to the chart it is the exact same way in XP, ASIO goes directly to the driver, then the hardware.
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post #10 of 20
1/9/08 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
Your understanding is not correct. Check out the "ASIO 4All" thread on this page which has a nice chart of the sound path on XP and Vista.
I just checked the thread and saw the diagram. Sure, it looks different but the OP answered my question in a very clear tone, and I am happy to know I dont need Asio4All.
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post #11 of 20
1/10/08 at 3:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarFromCentre View Post
According to the chart it is the exact same way in XP, ASIO goes directly to the driver, then the hardware.
No KMixer though. That was the issue with XP, not necessarily the path. I haven't tested it yet because I can't get my Dell 1420 to work with the foobar KS plugin or ASIO4ALL. I have to use DS. If I get it working I will compare.
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post #12 of 20
1/10/08 at 6:48pm
The layering in audio stack is different for Vista and XP. Vista has no kmixer but it still modifies the bits although which higher fidelity than kmixer. Direct Streaming or ASIO bypasses the modifications. Whether you can hear that depends on a lot of factors in your equipment and probably most importantly your ears.

One thing you can do in Vista is to pin the output format to 24 bit/44.1 Khz for the card and select 24bit output in Jriver or foobar. At that point 16bit/44.1Khz data from CDs wil be delivered as 24bit data with the significant data in the top 16 bits and they will go through the Vista stack intact.

You do not need any plugins or additonal software with Jriver in order to get ASIO playback. In fact I have been using that for years and has been very stable and reliable on my M-audio and ESI-pro cards.

Cheers

Thomas
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post #13 of 20
1/10/08 at 11:21pm
I've never found ASIOforall or kernal streaming to produce true bit-perfect, except in the case of proprietary DTS/DD passthrough for certain videocards. Only ASIO plug-ins for players and pro software seems capable of true bit-perfect besides that. I use WinAmp for most bit-perfect playing using the ASIO plug-in. I also use my iPod with WinAmp. Works great. I hate iTunes. I wish Microsoft Media Player had ASIO, DTS passthrough, and 24bit support. Seems stupid that they don't make it more full-featured. That and it needs cropping capability for DVDs like ATI's software has. My only gripe against WinAmp is that there's no DVD playerback. You just can't win.
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post #14 of 20
1/19/08 at 12:07pm
There is a clear difference between ASIO and DS for my Vista 32-bit setup, using foobar's asio plugin and an Edirol UA-1EX's native ASIO driver. I could pick them apart out in a blind test every time.

I prefer the ASIO sound, although I don't think this will be universal. DS is warmer, a bit rolled off. Almost a little like the stereotypical tube sound.
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post #15 of 20
1/19/08 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpe_91 View Post
I use foobar with the FofR skin, I think it is great and looks awesome too!

Here's a link to it: Foobar2000 Blog » FofR Version 0.9
I have seen your post before regarding the FofR skin and I agree, it's exceptional.

It took me a good 8 hours futzing, downloading, decoding chinese, to get the skin to work. It drove me crazy. After all that time, I couldn't get the album art to work.

From what I understand, since this skin uses panels, it won't show album art embedded in the tag??
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