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K1000's with SAC amp: heaven on Earth!

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I recently got back from kwkarth's house. After a damn good dinner (), I got to listen to the K1000's with the SAC amp critically. I still haven't come down!

First off, the bass was very suprising. Although still light with the earpieces extended all the way out, it did have presence. i can't remember the other amps at the headroom meet giving the bass this level of presence. I think that it's because the amp had better control over the transducers, but I honestly don't know. Kwkarth did have a sub though, and it helped fill in the lowest frequencies. But since we were using other headphones a lot, most of our listening was done sub-less. so that proves that the K1000's with SAC amp has enough bass to get by.

On to the soundstage! How can I describe it? it's wide, airy and incredibly accurate. Every instrument or voice takes up a specific point in space, so the transparency is absolutely top-notch. I was absolutely stunned. Nothing else came close.

Overall sound I suppose is the most important thing. Well, I'll give it a shot. The detail is simply amazing. You want ety's in a fullsizer? you found it. The clarity is breathtaking. If it's there, you'll hear it perfectly. Instruments are presented so realistically you won't believe it. And a lot of it really is that SAC amp! From what i can remember, the SAC kicks the ass of that $6,000 V20 amp at the headroom meet (with the K1000's). I just can't remember being this impressed at the headroom meet; I remember that i thought they sounded shouty in the upper mids/lower treble (even Tyll said that). Well, there's none of that with the SAC. The sound is just like it's showed in the tiny thumbnail below:

You see that?! Dead flat! At first I didn't believe that at ALL, but after tonight I do! They were so accurate and realistic that it'll just knock your socks off. You won't believe it. As far as I'm concerned, this is the ultimate headphone setup. And if anyone's going to top it, it's going to be AKG, baby!

I'm looking at what i wrote, and it seems incredibly concise. But you know what? It doesn't matter. you can't really explain this stuff. you just have to hear it for yourself. Or maybe I need some more critical listening time...(hint hint, kwkarth! )

So yeah, if you have the money, like most of us don't, take this route. you'll look like an idiot but it'll sound absolutely great! The K1000's certainly won't win any beauty contests but as far as high fidelity is concerned they're one of the best. The only headphones that might top them are the Omega 2's or the orpheus...now compare prices. One costs 8 grand, the other costs 12 grand and there are only six left, while the K1000 with SAC amp (trust me! to get this sound you NEED that amp!) costs $1070 from Jan Meier. Hmm...guess which headphone is the best deal?

man, kwkarth is the luckiest guy i know...
post #2 of 24
Ahh here's that review. Seems like you liked those headphones... :-)

What music did you listen to, by the way?
post #3 of 24
That's funny, since I heard the SAC amp wasn't the greatest amp around town to use with the K1000s, and that a Cambridge Audio amp gave much better results than it.

Still intriguing though...I've been wanting something that'll give me mad details lately, I wonder if this is the toy to get, short of taking the high route with the Omegas...
post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 
dude, I just told you that the SAC gave better results than an amp costing 6 grand. maybe that cambridge amp is pretty good, but I dunno. This amp was MADE for the K1000's, it stands to reason that they'll sound good together.

what music? everything! Classical, folk, rock, a lot of percussion, indian music, etc. And they always sounded great!
post #5 of 24
What did you think of the sound of the SAC without the "fix?" How about the sound of the K1000s driven by the Kenwood amp as opposed to the SAC? Just for points of reference.
post #6 of 24
post #7 of 24
Man that dinner must have been better than I thought it was. I'd better complement my wife on her cooking again!!
post #8 of 24
Originally posted by Xander
Now, now Xander, you know you can't have your K1000s until you finish your 401s.
post #9 of 24
It all makes sense now........

When KW changed his avatar recently, I thought the K/1000 had something to do with his name, now I see the reference is to AKG
k1000 headphones.

Now more details please, what was the source, the interconnects used, SAC amp have aftermarket AC cord etc. Also what did you guys have for dinner?
post #10 of 24
It was the dinner. I love you honey!!

Lesse... Source was one of the best low cost HDCD players I've heard, a Kenwood RD-VH7 line out into the Creek OBH-11SE through 1m Monster 950i. The Creek has pass through jacks on the back so out on the second jacks through 1m Monster 400MkII into the SAC through supplied RCA-A3M adapters. Un-oopsed SAC into K1000s. Let me say this, the 950i cable was carefully chosen from a pile of interconnects when I originally bought the Creek. The 400Mii was hastily chosen to get me by until I can decide what to really do about interconnects. So, things can only get better. I would like to get interconnects made that have A3ms on one end and the RCAs on the other. What recommendations for interconnects do y'all have?

I plan to haul the SAC/K1000s down to my fav 'Fi shoppe and listen to some really SOTA sources some day soon. I may not come home.
post #11 of 24
Oh yes, the music...
  • Béla Fleck, Perpetual Motion
  • Edgar Meyer/Béla Fleck, Uncommon Ritual
  • Béla Fleck, Left of Cool
  • Yo-Yo Ma, Meyer, O'Conner, Applachian Journey
  • RR Fennell/Dallas Wind Symphony, Pomp & Pipes
  • RR Tutti! Orchestral Sampler
  • RR Dick Hyman in Recital
  • Mont Blanc Placido Domingo's Operalia '98
  • Amanda McBroom/Lincoln Mayorga, West of Oz
  • Audioquest Mokave Vol 2
  • Nimbus "The Lady Fainted" L.M. Gottschalk
  • Brothers of the Balladi, Eye on the World
  • a bunch of Neruda's stuff I don't remember...
post #12 of 24
Originally posted by DarkAngel
...SAC amp have aftermarket AC cord etc.
The SAC has a 4 pound wall wart w/ Euopean AC plug. The x-frmr inside is wired for 115v primary. The whole affair neccessitiates that one plug the wall into the adapter rather than the other way 'round. The output of the "wart" (unregulated -+23VDC) is wired directly into the backside of the SAC.

One of the first things I intend to look into is a better PS. I've got some nice 60VA torroids laying around. ...hmm

BTW, SAC just sent me a spec sheet and said that the schematic is on the way. Great company eh?
anyway, FR is listed as 2Hz-200kHz +0-1db
Max output 12V, distortion @ 11.5V = 0.1%
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
okay, regarding the two points of reference kwkarth mentioned:

The SAC had two outputs for the K1000. One of these outputs was still out of phase, while the one that kwkarth fixed was not. The one that was out of phase just sounded wierd. The soundstage was practically gone, the sound was muddier, and the treble was unclear. Their sound didn't seem to make sense.

Using the K1000 through the Kenwood Class A amp, the sound was very similar to what I remember hearing at the headroom meet. The upper mids were again shouty, but most importantly all the treble clarity was gone. They sounded dull.

does that help?
post #14 of 24
I translated the document I got from SAC through Babelfish and enclose for your reading pleasure: (My attempts at further translation enclosed in parens.)
Operating instruction & technical data headphone amplifiers

love Hififreunde,
We congratulate you to the acquisition of the headphone amplifier to the K-1000.
They are to be exhausted now in the possession of a leading product of the Hifitechnik from the house SAC. around the entire performance potential and possible problems due to a faulty operation be prevented, read you please before the line-up this guidance carefully.

We require much joy in the music with your new amplifier to you! To the K-1000 Amplifier can be attached at the same time two headphones at the front side. They run parallel and when connecting headphone are alike it, which the two female connectors you use.

The inputs are on the rear side of the device and are, as in the studio technology usually, executed as symmetrical XLR of inputs. If you should not possess appropriate cables and connection types, there is corresponding adapter in the accessory trade. Thus then quite normally asymmetrical Chinchkabel (RCA patch cord) can be attached. The change over switch Line/Aux switches between two different reinforcement (gain) levels.

Which of the two use you, depends on the output voltage of your source. They can try it out easily, with which position the range of control of the volume control is better used. The K-1000 Amplifier is a very puristic device without sound automatic controllers( compression), Loudnesschalter (loudness compensation) and the like, in order to strengthen the input signals as loss-free and discoloration-poor as possible.

It is a pure Class A device constructed and strengthened thus extremely distortion-poor (free) the music signals. The device remains unfolding (powered on) also in the switched off status at the network over starting from the first minute the full sound quality. It is thus normal that the device is more immmer warmed up. The stored externally plug power pack prevents effectively a humming stray effect druch the trafo.

The amplifier protects itself both your headphones and against to large levels. With permanent to large signals it switches itself off for approx. 5 sec.. The LED at the front side displays this status by a flashing signal. Likewise their headphone is protected against DC voltage proportions, which can destroy it.

Description of links protective circuits

Max. output voltage > 12 V
max. reinforcement (gain) LINE 20.9 dB
max. reinforcement (gain) Aux 28.7 dB

Transfer area LINE < 2Hz - > 200 kHz -1dB
transfer area Aux < 2Hz - > 110 kHz -1dB
distortion factor 11.5 V output voltage < 0.1 %
input sensitivity LINE 950mVs for 10 V output voltage
input sensitivity Aux 360 mVs for 10 V output voltage
feed impedance 2 x 7.5 kOhm
dimensions (B x H x T) 170 x 75 x 190mm
weight 2.4 kg

Technical data
SAC GmbH - Anna route 38 - 45130 meals - Tel.: 0201 / 793479
- fax: 0201 / 790294
- EMail: info@sac.de
post #15 of 24

Ah, another enlightened one....

Neruda wrote:
"So yeah, if you have the money, like most of us don't, take this route. you'll look like an idiot but it'll sound absolutely great!"

Whadaya mean I look like an idiot? I thought that I looked like a doofus!

The solution is easy: don't wear them out in public, and don't ever look in the mirror whilst wearing them. Either of these transgressions will result in howls of derisive laughter.

kwkarth, keep us posted on the power supply mod. I need to do something about that rock. I will probably hard wire a second cord to feed it. Do you leave the supply plugged in all the time? I know the manual recommends it, but I don't like leaving things powered up when I am not at home, and the amp is powered up whether the switch is on or not.
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