Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Gear-Fi: Non-Audio Gear and Gadgets › Is elephant leather unethical?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Is elephant leather unethical?

post #1 of 56
Thread Starter 
I see on ebay that elephant leather products are cheap. For example, this elephant wallet is only $9.99. I find this suprising.

Black Elephant Skin Leather Bifolds Men's Wallet - (eBay item 270197657658 end time Dec-25-07 20:10:25 PST)

The thing is, aren't elephants an endangered species? Wouldn't this be unethical?
post #2 of 56
Only if you don't roast the meat and eat it medium rare and then proceed to use every part of the elephants body. But in all seriousness I doubt that that is real Elephants leather. If it is probably illegal to purchase would be, as you stated, highly unethical.
post #3 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spareribs View Post
I see on ebay that elephant leather products are cheap. For example, this elephant wallet is only $9.99. I find this suprising.

Black Elephant Skin Leather Bifolds Men's Wallet - (eBay item 270197657658 end time Dec-25-07 20:10:25 PST)

The thing is, aren't elephants an endangered species? Wouldn't this be unethical?
I don't see anything wrong with elephant leather. That wallet probably isn't elephant leather though, the price is too low.
post #4 of 56
That smiling elephant logo is kinda disturbing, don't you think?

A few quick searches only turned up info on the ivory ban, but nothing on a ban for leather or meat.

Still, elephants are largely endangered. And it's not like you really need a wallet made from elephant hide. There are plenty of other leathers available, as well as cloth and synthetic wallets.

I wouldn't buy one. I don't see any reason to support trade of an endangered animal, especially when there are so many substitutes.
post #5 of 56
It's only unethical from the elephant's point of view.
post #6 of 56
if you don't think regular leather (cow grown) is bad then there should be nothing wrong with any other leather out there.

if you do think regular leather is bad and/or if your against the whole idea of any animal leather then yes. yes elephant leather is unethical.

I personally own shoes/products from a variety of animals that had a heart beat sometime in the past. Ostrich, Alligator, Crocodile, Deer, Sting Ray, oh..and cow's (young and old) to name most of them Dead animals so i guess i would not have a problem with elephant leather either.

speaking of which..
can you find me a nice Italian made pair of loafers in elephant leather?
pending on the brand and style i might be up for such a pair....
post #7 of 56
Living in Africa and being extremely fond of wildlife, this is something quite close to my heart. As mentioned above though - the ban is on ivory, for the reason that elephants are hunted and needlessly slaughtered for their tusks.

The hide, however, is another issue. I cannot claim to know much but do know that the elephants in South Africa are not endangered (I believe there are some species in India and Asia that are); and they are often culled- that is, purposefully killed.

That is essentially the purposeful selection and killing of animals within a population (e.g. a wildlife park such as the Kruger National park). This is highly controlled and restricted, and done so due to the elephant's destructive nature in terms of its own environment. Within a wildlife park, overpopulation can easily occur (no natural predators for the elephant either than man) resulting in a destroyed ecosystem for the rest of the wildlife in the park. The aim is thus to bring about balance and homeostatis in the population.

The result of this culling is often used for the likes of leathers and other products for human consumption. I would be lying if I knew whether the ivory from culling is allowed or if it is destroyed.
post #8 of 56
the big differance between lather from one animal to another and how "ethical" it is to use would basicly be the use of the rest of the animal

a cow, the leather is worn and the meat is consumed, so most of the animal is put to good use, and the animal is breed for that purpose,

but a wild elephant, there are not elephant farms, a wild elephant is caught, the tusks are taken and the elephant are skinned, the rest of the elephant is discarted, thats what makes is less ethical,
1)its a wild animal,
2)most of the animal is discarted,

now, if you set up a elephant farm and promote the consumption of elephant meat, the story would be different,
post #9 of 56
Generally speaking the elephants are not endangerered and , no, it is NOT unethical to use the skins of wild animals over farmed equivalents.
A preference for "farmed" animals is cultural and is not based on farming being "ethically" superior to wild harvesting. I find that ecologically simpleminded as well as untenable.

The only thing that counts is whether or not the take is sustainable.
Ethics are not universal and what is considered a usable species from region to another changes.

As for the whole use of the animal canard, just think how "efficiencies" in farming led to mad cow disease.

I would however be most surprised if that wallet was genuine elephant leather.

Now I would be much more impressed if Head-Fiers were discussing the ethics of using the materials in their phones and components.
post #10 of 56
Quote:
if you don't think regular leather (cow grown) is bad then there should be nothing wrong with any other leather out there.
There's a logical fallacy if I ever heard one.

Taken from another angle, if you think a standard pornographic movie is acceptable, there should be nothing wrong with any sort of extreme or child pornography. Or if there's nothing wrong with the US having nuclear weapons, there should be no problem with any nation having them.
Quote:
Generally speaking the elephants are not endangerered
Also wrong. Elephants are protected in virtually every country where they exist; African elephants, for instance, were once in the millions but now number less than 500,000.
post #11 of 56
I think if we're down to dragging child **** and nukes into the argument then we've strayed a long ways from anything to do with conservation and we've created another fallacy.

Just because a species is "protected" does not mean that a take from the population is not feasible or even desirable (as has been pointed out already with respect to park management in the southern range states).

Allowing a small market for elephant products such as leather, hair and yes, even ivory can benefit the human communities who actually have to share their living space with these creatures and whose voice is more often drowned out by the big money western animal protest industry.
post #12 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceClass View Post
I think if we're down to dragging child **** and nukes into the argument then we've strayed a long ways from anything to do with conservation and we've created another fallacy.

Just because a species is "protected" does not mean that a take from the population is not feasible or even desirable (as has been pointed out already with respect to park management in the southern range states).

Allowing a small market for elephant products such as leather, hair and yes, even ivory can benefit the human communities who actually have to share their living space with these creatures and whose voice is more often drowned out by the big money western animal protest industry.
I agree. The policy of total, absolute protection of wildlife has been a disaster. In the wild, the "balance of nature" is dynamic, and involves the constant birth and death of plants and animals. Man has gone overboard and wiped whole species off the map, but going 180 degrees the other way is not the solution. We humans with our value judgments, see a de-tusked, skinned, abandoned carcass as a waste, but we tend to forget that nature is totally equipped to deal with it. Scavengers need to eat too, it's what they're for. Nothing, after all, goes to waste excepting the very life of the animal.

I was driving north of here yesterday, to go for a hike in a wilderness marsh, and observed several hawks perched in trees along the highway. I guessed they were hungry, and keeping an eye out for possible road kill. Had I had a car load of bunnies, I would have chucked one out the car window for each hawk I saw. No regret.

Laz
post #13 of 56
Just FYI... "Elephant leather" wallets are generally cowhide with an elephant skin texture pressed into them.

See ya
Steve
post #14 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus Short View Post
I agree. The policy of total, absolute protection of wildlife has been a disaster. In the wild, the "balance of nature" is dynamic, and involves the constant birth and death of plants and animals. Man has gone overboard and wiped whole species off the map, but going 180 degrees the other way is not the solution. We humans with our value judgments, see a de-tusked, skinned, abandoned carcass as a waste, but we tend to forget that nature is totally equipped to deal with it. Scavengers need to eat too, it's what they're for. Nothing, after all, goes to waste excepting the very life of the animal.

I was driving north of here yesterday, to go for a hike in a wilderness marsh, and observed several hawks perched in trees along the highway. I guessed they were hungry, and keeping an eye out for possible road kill. Had I had a car load of bunnies, I would have chucked one out the car window for each hawk I saw. No regret.

Laz
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceClass View Post
I think if we're down to dragging child **** and nukes into the argument then we've strayed a long ways from anything to do with conservation and we've created another fallacy.

Just because a species is "protected" does not mean that a take from the population is not feasible or even desirable (as has been pointed out already with respect to park management in the southern range states).

Allowing a small market for elephant products such as leather, hair and yes, even ivory can benefit the human communities who actually have to share their living space with these creatures and whose voice is more often drowned out by the big money western animal protest industry.
You missed the point of "western aniaml protest industry"; you missed the idea behind the ban on ivory; and you're also misinformed about the ethical issues regarding luxury products such as this "elephant wallet." The point is not whether natives can hunt down and use wild species' parts as their survival needs, such as clothing and food (as originally intended). The point is because of Western countries' overconsumption, we're driving our wants over our needs, and shifting this burden onto animals and wild species.

I do not see any ethical issue regarding natives hunting down animals and fully using their body parts as living necessities, in fact, if they don't, it'd be seen as wasteful. HOWEVER, it is another story when people are hunting down elephants and other species to create luxury products for Western's demands, and in this case, making this elephant wallet and selling it on Ebay.

So yes, I say the idea behind getting a full size genuine leapord jacket with panda-skin matching shoes (or in this case, an elephant-skin wallet) is quite unethical.
post #15 of 56
I would say if it isn't a farmed animal, then yes, it is unethical--unless in fact you are spearing it on your own in the wild. Natural hunting, with natural weapons.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Gear-Fi: Non-Audio Gear and Gadgets › Is elephant leather unethical?