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A foray into the world of vinyl - Page 2

post #16 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by trains are bad View Post
The entry level tables available nowadays are cool, but they are mere toys next to the mighty Technics. It's the Remington 870 of turntables. I traded away my Marantz after I bought an SL1700 for $40 at a garage sale. The quality is obvious to me.
You know, that's exactly what I thought. My MMF5 looks like a toy compared to the 1200. It feels like a toy compared to the 1200. I can press down on the MMF5's platter and it will physically bow about a quarter of an inch! The 1200's platter is rock solid. And don't get me started about antiskate outrigger weights..
post #17 of 66
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius View Post
You know, that's exactly what I thought. My MMF5 looks like a toy compared to the 1200. It feels like a toy compared to the 1200. I can press down on the MMF5's platter and it will physically bow about a quarter of an inch! The 1200's platter is rock solid. And don't get me started about antiskate outrigger weights..
But if the 1200 is made for a lot more aggressive use, then this would make sense. Also, isn't a stiffer damped platter a bad thing and not necessarily a good thing? Talking out of my ears here ...
post #18 of 66
I have a Technics 1200 with a KABUSA power supply and Origin Live Silver tonearm and I am happy with it.The table is doing everything it is suppose to do without any noise,(how do these false stories ever get started anyway?).The Silver tonearm is actually probably holding the Technics 1200 back a little.
post #19 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclejr View Post
But if the 1200 is made for a lot more aggressive use, then this would make sense. Also, isn't a stiffer damped platter a bad thing and not necessarily a good thing? Talking out of my ears here ...
The SL1200 just comes from a time when consumer electronics were made to last (1970s) and they just havn't changed the design in the interim. There is nothing wrong with using it as a Hi-Fi deck as that was it's original intended purpose.

The only thing that the more recent decks like the Rega/Pro-Ject etc have over it is a better designed tonearm but you can easily rectify this by upgrading it as ssportclay has. see here The best dj tonearms for dj decks - technics 1200 deck.

Otherwise using the stock Technics arm careful cartridge matching is factor. The low cost Denon MC carts like the DL110/160/103 etc are a popular match.
See here for a recent review in the Italian online mag TNT Technics SL-1200 MkII turntable - [English]
post #20 of 66
Thread Starter 
Despite the surprisingly overwhelming recommendation for this table, I still cannot bring myself to just try it without giving it an audition. I'd buy 'deaf' for some things, but not this.

Any recommendations within, say, $600, not the Technics, though I appreciate the suggestion?
post #21 of 66
post #22 of 66
The Technics SL-1200 is a good deck. My cousin, a complete vinyl freak, worked for Panasonic and managed to pick up some special edition for a song. I've heard it and thought it a good deck.

Came close to buying one, but got seduced by Rega and went for a good deal on a used Planar 3 with a RB300 just about one year ago. I added a Grado Gold and just loved it. I upgraded to a Gyrodec a few months back and passed off the Rega to a good friend. However, I like the Planar 3 so much, I grabbed a bare plinth for $20 and have been slowly adding parts to it for a second system.

You should be able to find a used Planar 3/P3 and a decent cart within your budget. The real strength of these decks is the tonearm - the RB300 is one of the best out there. I have a couple of issues with the RB300. One, Rega doesn't believe in VTA, so I added the aftermarket VTA adjuster. The other is that it runs ground on the left channel. This can be fixed with a rewire, which I had done, since I kept my RB300 on the Gyrodec.

I decided to build my Rega project deck with all the upgrades and tweaks. I particularly like the Groovetracer platter and subplatter/bearing upgrades. I'm adding VTA on the fly, extra damping, a electronically-controlled motor, and several other things.

Don't think you're limited to a stock Rega. Aftermarket parts will let you do just about anything you want.
post #23 of 66
The sound quality from the Rega p2 and p3 decks will be superior to a stock Technics 1200 deck due to their better stock tonearms which are legendary.If no upgrade path is desired down the road,then the Rega decks are perfectly acceptable.The reason that the Technics 1200 is the better choice is that it is a far superior deck to any Rega deck regardless of cost.All one has to do is install a Rega 250 tonearm or better to a Technics 1200 turntable which takes about an hour and you end up with a Rega giant killer.The installation is really quite easy.The direct drive Technics is also much more user friendly than all belt drive tables which all kind of suck in this regard regardless of price.The platter doesn't slow down when cleaning off a record and you can increase the platter speed instantaneously to 45 RPM with a single pop of the 45 button.
post #24 of 66
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekbmn View Post
Cool, I saw these, thanks. Was wondering if they were any good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
The Technics SL-1200 is a good deck. My cousin, a complete vinyl freak, worked for Panasonic and managed to pick up some special edition for a song. I've heard it and thought it a good deck.

Came close to buying one, but got seduced by Rega and went for a good deal on a used Planar 3 with a RB300 just about one year ago. I added a Grado Gold and just loved it. I upgraded to a Gyrodec a few months back and passed off the Rega to a good friend. However, I like the Planar 3 so much, I grabbed a bare plinth for $20 and have been slowly adding parts to it for a second system.

You should be able to find a used Planar 3/P3 and a decent cart within your budget. The real strength of these decks is the tonearm - the RB300 is one of the best out there. I have a couple of issues with the RB300. One, Rega doesn't believe in VTA, so I added the aftermarket VTA adjuster. The other is that it runs ground on the left channel. This can be fixed with a rewire, which I had done, since I kept my RB300 on the Gyrodec.

I decided to build my Rega project deck with all the upgrades and tweaks. I particularly like the Groovetracer platter and subplatter/bearing upgrades. I'm adding VTA on the fly, extra damping, a electronically-controlled motor, and several other things.

Don't think you're limited to a stock Rega. Aftermarket parts will let you do just about anything you want.
Wow, sounds like a lot can be done. I got the impression that the major upgrade stuff can only occur on P2 and above -- is this true? That in and of itself is quite appealing for going P2 v. P1.
post #25 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclejr View Post
Wow, sounds like a lot can be done. I got the impression that the major upgrade stuff can only occur on P2 and above -- is this true? That in and of itself is quite appealing for going P2 v. P1.
Frankly if you are planning lots of upgrading your much better off with a deck like one of those Thorens or the Technics which have much more potential.

The Rega is intended as a high quality entry level off the peg solution for people who just want to play records with a minimum of fuss which is what most non Hi-Fi freaks want after all. If you use a Rega cart they would doubtless argue VTA is an irelevance because it's been factory optimised.

Yes you can make various upgrades to the platter or motor or whatever but you can never really get away from the fact that it's just a slab of MDF, and by the time you've blown a small fortune on upgrading it you could have bought a Gyrodek in the first place.
post #26 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little J040 View Post
am i right to argue that direct drive turntables inherently add bearing noise to the playback? or is that low enough in frequency to not affect the audible sound?
I have heard of audiophiles who hate everything about a direct drive because somehow it does'nt fit their view about what a TT should be .They have this upity view that belt drives are better,no matter what.More and more I seem to hear that direct drives are better because they don't color the sound,and the pitch stays level.I have a BIC 912 belt drive and the pitch does waver just a little, but it is an old table.As far as the high dollar belt drives such as Rega ,LINN and whatever else,I can't comment on because I've never owned one.I have a Marantz TT330 direct drive,which is definatley not considerd an upper cut table,and I can't hear a speck of rumble out of it,and it's 20 years old.I have a 30 year old direct drive Sansui SR-525,and I can't hear it either,and it runs like a Swiss watch on new years day.I would not be afraid to buy the Technics 1200 DDs,and music direct has a Denon vintage style DD that will start up in a second or less.No, I don,t buy the argument that belts are better,but I'm not saying that they don't have an advantage.
post #27 of 66
If your belt drive isn't holding pitch, it may just need a new belt.

See ya
Steve
post #28 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
If your belt drive isn't holding pitch, it may just need a new belt.

See ya
Steve
I have already tried that and it made a difference with the speed adjustment ,but there still is a tiny bit of a waver,but not realy much enough to complain about I guess.I realy do like BIC TTss alot.This model (912) has a very heavy thick aluminum platter with a heavy stock mat that is very thick,it's a record changer but I use a small spindle for playing because I've never liked the idea of records pileing up on one another.BICs were made for the duration because the motors were made to turn much slower than other TT belt drive motors from other manufactures.They also cut alot of the fancy features compaired to others,so you would have less trouble in the long run.I guess one day maybe I'll get a brand new one such as a rega or project,but this old stuff still sounds good.Thanks anyway. LL
post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by double LL View Post
I have already tried that and it made a difference with the speed adjustment ,but there still is a tiny bit of a waver,but not realy much enough to complain about I guess.
Did you try cleaning the belt path on the motor spindle and inner platter with isopropyl alcohol as old belts can leave a lot of dirt on there? The symptoms you describe sound like the belt isn't running true which can be caused by the suspension not being levelled properly or contamination in the path of the belt.

I am not familiar with the BIC model you mention but this is a common enough problem on belt drives especially with designs where you actually touch the belt with your fingers to change speed as the contamination can cause the belt to slip resulting in minute speed instabilities. Some manufacturers even supply a pair of white gloves to prevent this
post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by memepool View Post
Did you try cleaning the belt path on the motor spindle and inner platter with isopropyl alcohol as old belts can leave a lot of dirt on there? The symptoms you describe sound like the belt isn't running true which can be caused by the suspension not being levelled properly or contamination in the path of the belt.

I am not familiar with the BIC model you mention but this is a common enough problem on belt drives especially with designs where you actually touch the belt with your fingers to change speed as the contamination can cause the belt to slip resulting in minute speed instabilities. Some manufacturers even supply a pair of white gloves to prevent this
The problem could be from the old pulley,maybe it was a little out of round.I am buying a new pulley replacement for the motor shaft.I was checking it out and the thing broke ,as if it was brittle and old.It seems like it was made out of very thin plastic.I bought the table used ,so you know what you can run into.I hope the replacement will be a improvement .This BIC is American manufactured,with the basic British mechanical desing I assume.The one feature that stands out on this one compaired to other BICs that I have seen is that the pitch control is on the outer face of the table with a adjustable mirror to make it easier to see the strobe. I am suprised you did'nt name a BIC in your low budget vinyl source thread .I have heard that the BIC 1000s are a great table.I just think BIC TTs are one of the best "forgotten ones "that are still available.Thanks Memepool ,I will take your advise.LL
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