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IMPRESSIONS: NEW Stax SR-007 MK2 and Stax SR404

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Before I begin, I want to thank The Gramophone for giving me the opportunity to audition these headphones. Brian and David were extremely helpful not only in setting up the Stax gear but also helping me in getting a few beyer headbands in my hands *crosses fingers* I feel like a million bucks right about now.

The event transpired no more than 2 hours ago. I grabbed the car after class to cash a cheque, and thought, "What the hey, let's visit The Gramophone." I had already inquired about the beyer headbands some weeks ago, but my phone dropped a few calls consecutively and nothing was finalized. I also asked to listen to the SR-001 MK2 system which wasn't in when I originally asked about the headbands. Thus, there we were, commiserating about the crappy North American beyer distributors' customer service when David mentioned that they had received a new shipment of Stax not too long ago. I spied around for the shelf that held the familiar SR404 box, but it wasn't there. In fact, in its place was a briefcase, a briefcase that had the coding "SR-007 MK2." I squealed quietly (that's right) and put my hands to my face à la McCauley Culkin in Home Alone, and they offered to set it up for me. I was speechless for a while, and I gladly accepted. You see, I've never heard any electrostat before, and the very prospect of getting near to one would be like walking into a Porsche dealership and sitting in the driver's seat. (Using Porsche would be an accurate analogue, right?) David went in to set up the Stax SRM 006tII energizer while I went to grab some CDs.

Returning to the listening room (some of the readers' eyes would explode out of your ears if you saw the crazy gear they had and consistently set up in there), I waited as David was plugging in the who knows how expensive RCA cables into the Ayre Evolution CD player that sourced this wondrous moment. First plugging in the SR404, I leaned back in their comfy armchair and let the sweet sounds come. Wow. This sound was the cleanest and most natural I have yet heard. On some tracks through my SR60s where the cymbals were shrill and a slightly harsh, it was all very comfortable-sounding through the SR404s. It had some forward mids reminiscent of the SR60s as well. I had seen these SR404s at least a year ago, so I'm assuming they were well burnt-in by impression time. Bass punch was very pleasing, not at all overwhelming or overbearing. And the fit was incredible too. Here I was, trying to get some beyer headbands when this Stax one made everything disappear. The fit around my ears was very comfortable as well, and I'm guessing would continue to be so for some time had I the opportunity to listen further. Very neutral sound. The highs were very precise without getting sibilant. Fast-souding indeed. The complete range sounded very balanced to me, and I thought for a moment that I could live with kind of sound until I die. But that was just a thought. The SRM006tII+SR404 system would cost me 1700 clams (the exchange rate between clams and CAD is 1:1); not so bad once I get my Engineering Co-op job, but I have two years of school to continue paying my parents back for.

Now onto the SR007MK2. This headphone was truly a beauty of a beast. Slick black all over, real sheep's leather, full and comfy earpads; this was the real deal. The sound? Darkness to the max. Wow, the only other 'phone I've ever heard this veiled was the Audio Technica W5000, but that had a different signature to it. Treble pushed back, mids seemed kinda hollowed out, bass not quite up to the SR404. The lack of mids reminded me of an unburned-in GS1000. Granted, it had only been a week since The Gramophone had received the unit, but Brian informed me he tried to burn it in as soon as he got it over a couple nights. We can count on a couple dozen hours there. Anyway, I had heard that the O2s were very dark and almost muddy sounding, but I hadn't ever understood what that really meant. Did I enjoy it? Ehhh, not as much as the 404. I like the balance, the forwardness, the bass punch. I had heard that electrostats suffered from weak bass, but David told me that didn't really hold to headphones, which I had noticed. Even if I were expecting anemic bass, the bass was well greater than my now bass-heavy Millett Hybrid MAX+SR60. Greater in the sense that the thump wasn't as offensive and better controlled. Very easy to get used to. And I just started getting used to my MHM+SR60 combo too. Anyway, the description of the O2MK2s' sound I used with David was something you'd listen to on a dark Saturday night, Cuban in one hand and Scotch in the other, leaning back in your armchair and taking stock of your life. I don't smoke nor do I drink, but you get the idea. Very mature sound, very well-behaved, très leaned back.

I understand that some of the terms and descriptions I've employed may offend some electrostat fans, but I never knew what electrostats really sounded like a couple hours ago. My conclusion on today's experience? O2MK2s very dark, very relaxed. It was overall a comfortable sound, but a little too comfortable for me. I've still got a little vitality to me, so I prefer a sound that's a bit more energetic and vibrant. I think the 404s were dynamic (not in THAT way), fast and precise, punchy but balanced, sharp but still comfortable. My conclusion is that the Stax have reached a precision that's so...precise...that it feigns a generally laid back sound. Paradoxical? Think of a relaxed digital source; precise and relaxed. Voila. Goodness. I don't even know if I want that SR-001 MK2 system anymore. Must listen more.

Thanks for reading. Knowledge and comments are always welcome with me.
post #2 of 13
I haven't heard the SR-007 Mk II but your descriptions of the SR-404 are pretty much spot on in terms of how I heard it the first time. It's not until I lived with the SR-404 that its weaknesses became really apparent. At first listen, it very much has that "wow" factor, starkly clean, very open, and surprisingly vivid and energetic sound. What eventually killed the headphones for me was the midrange coloration, which, compared to the lush mids of the K340, wasn't pleasant at all. That, and the overall lack of tactile response.

It's really a myth that 'stats lack bass. Well designed 'stats very much have bass. The SR-404 has a very good clean bass that's well balanced with the rest of the frequency spectrum. What 'stats lack is bass slam, and overall tactile feedback, but there's plenty of audible bass to go around.

Frankly, I think that Stax amps are rubbish, and hold back their very capable headphones. My McAlister amp has issues, but it already hinted at potential which the SRM-007t couldn't achieve. If the bugs were worked out it would have been killer with the SR-404 - fast, aggressive, dynamic, and ultra-detailed. But, my patience ran out, and I sold the SR-404 to move onto greener pastures.

Stax the company has lately seemed very lazy to me. There are clear issues with many of their headphones (the SR-404 has a terrible housing/chassis that's holding back the drivers, the amps are junk, the SR-001/003 has a very rolled-off treble response that's holding back the sound quality, etc) but as long as their gear keeps selling, they seem unwilling to change anything. That is a very self-destructive policy - in the long term, they will change only when they're forced to because they're falling behind. Um... isn't the goal in this business to stay ahead at all times?
post #3 of 13
So it's clear we have at least two broken SR-007 Mk2's in North America. This is pretty much a spot on description of a broken set. The 006t can't do them justice but it will present it self as mad bass with a recessed top range not as the OP described it.
post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by catscratch View Post
I haven't heard the SR-007 Mk II but your descriptions of the SR-404 are pretty much spot on in terms of how I heard it the first time. It's not until I lived with the SR-404 that its weaknesses became really apparent. At first listen, it very much has that "wow" factor, starkly clean, very open, and surprisingly vivid and energetic sound. What eventually killed the headphones for me was the midrange coloration, which, compared to the lush mids of the K340, wasn't pleasant at all. That, and the overall lack of tactile response.
I had a Sigma modified with 404 parts some while ago and this had been my favorite phone until I got my hands on Silclear silver-based contact enhancer. This stuff helps everything, more power, bass, slam, but it really pushed the 404 into another category, taming the upper mid/treble coloration and giving the set better dynamics with my Stax 717 amp. Even a lambda Nova treated with Silclear now sounds pretty good with an old SRM3 Stax amp.

I have not heard any of the Omegas but I suspect the treble roll-off would be a problem. The descriptions make them sound too much like and SRM001/003, which while ok for limited use is not the ultimate sound signature.
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
spritzer:

I'm wondering how seasoned the listener of the other broken set is in their general headphone listening. Coming purely from the low-fi Grados and KSC75s is the salt that must come with my impressions. What are the O2MK2s "supposed" to sound like? Would burn-in fix the broken sound?
I don't know if I mentioned it but I did hear a very recessed treble. The bass was present and lacked a bit of Darth Beyer oomph though. Overall, voices sound the same to me on almost any system so far, but the O2MK2s was the first time I ever took note that the voices were further back than normal.
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by joneeboi View Post
spritzer:

I'm wondering how seasoned the listener of the other broken set is in their general headphone listening. Coming purely from the low-fi Grados and KSC75s is the salt that must come with my impressions. What are the O2MK2s "supposed" to sound like? Would burn-in fix the broken sound?
I don't know if I mentioned it but I did hear a very recessed treble. The bass was present and lacked a bit of Darth Beyer oomph though. Overall, voices sound the same to me on almost any system so far, but the O2MK2s was the first time I ever took note that the voices were further back than normal.
Driven by Stax Amps O2s are consistently disappointing. Its like putting a Kia engine into a sports car.
post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
I have not heard any of the Omegas but I suspect the treble roll-off would be a problem. The descriptions make them sound too much like and SRM001/003, which while ok for limited use is not the ultimate sound signature.
There is no treble roll off with the Omegas but the amps can't give them enough current to fully flesh out the treble region and tame the bass. Cables are also very important as the SR-007 is extremely responsive to cabling and rejects most of the stuff by major cable manufacturers for the tone controlling, colored crap that it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joneeboi View Post
spritzer:

I'm wondering how seasoned the listener of the other broken set is in their general headphone listening. Coming purely from the low-fi Grados and KSC75s is the salt that must come with my impressions. What are the O2MK2s "supposed" to sound like? Would burn-in fix the broken sound?
I don't know if I mentioned it but I did hear a very recessed treble. The bass was present and lacked a bit of Darth Beyer oomph though. Overall, voices sound the same to me on almost any system so far, but the O2MK2s was the first time I ever took note that the voices were further back than normal.
The SR-007 becomes extremely smooth when under driven and while the treble lacks sparkle it isn't distant. The Darth Beyer bass isn't bass, it's a coloration so there is no comparison really. If the voices were recessed in the soundstage then the phones are clearly broken as their superb midrange shows up on every amp with the voices strong, front and center.

There have been broken MK2's showing up in the first shipment to the US and it is partially why Stax pushed back the SR-007A release date to January.
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
I had a Sigma modified with 404 parts some while ago and this had been my favorite phone until I got my hands on Silclear silver-based contact enhancer. This stuff helps everything, more power, bass, slam, but it really pushed the 404 into another category, taming the upper mid/treble coloration and giving the set better dynamics with my Stax 717 amp. Even a lambda Nova treated with Silclear now sounds pretty good with an old SRM3 Stax amp.

I have not heard any of the Omegas but I suspect the treble roll-off would be a problem. The descriptions make them sound too much like and SRM001/003, which while ok for limited use is not the ultimate sound signature.
I'd love to mess around with it but I've sold the SR-404 I do suspect that a lot of it was due to the lousiness of the Stax amps I had; the SR-404 sounded very good out of the McAlister amp, though it was very clear that the amp was voiced with the O2 in mind as it was way too bright for the SR-404. Still, it was punchy and dynamic, much more so than it was with the SRM-313 or the SRM-007t.

I'll mess around with Silclear on my K1k rig, whenever they get here.
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post
There is no treble roll off with the Omegas but the amps can't give them enough current to fully flesh out the treble region and tame the bass. Cables are also very important as the SR-007 is extremely responsive to cabling and rejects most of the stuff by major cable manufacturers for the tone controlling, colored crap that it is.

.

We have had this discussion before. What I know is that many, if not a overwhelming majority of listeners comment on the lack of treble of these phones, sometimes called them "dark." Some while back I pulled up a Headroom frequncy response of these phones and they showed a major decline of treble with a bit of a spike in the higer regions. This is not technically a roll-off only because of the spike but it still showed hf decline.

These reports have discouraged me from getting these, although cost is certainly a bigger issue.
post #10 of 13
wondering how the new 007 Mk II compare to the old 007 ?
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
We have had this discussion before. What I know is that many, if not a overwhelming majority of listeners comment on the lack of treble of these phones, sometimes called them "dark." Some while back I pulled up a Headroom frequncy response of these phones and they showed a major decline of treble with a bit of a spike in the higer regions. This is not technically a roll-off only because of the spike but it still showed hf decline.

These reports have discouraged me from getting these, although cost is certainly a bigger issue.
It's true we've had this discussion before but measuring the SR-007 is no small feat since they are unlike all other headphones. They don't swivel at all so they need to be fitted to the listeners head or the dummy heads. The stock fit is ok for some users but the phones have to be altered to sound like they are supposed to. The seal around the earpads is also very hard to get right and it is absolutely crucial. Now we can talk about the amp pushing the phones as the 007t or 717 is strangling them. The current need is very high at HF and the amps can't deliver it. You will see that on the graph as the power just isn't there to produce the intended SPL at this frequency range.
post #12 of 13
I found the O2’s remarkably clean and refined, but also quite distant and a bit dark out of the 007t – just a little better out of both the SRM1-MKII and SRD-7 pro with a power amp. As enjoyable as they were, it was as though some of the life of the music was filtered out of them. If the dark and distant sound is the amp’s fault, then I’m disappointed in Stax for putting those weakass amps out there for the 007.

After much thought, I sold the Omega II's – just wasn’t interested in pursing a high dollar chase for the right amplifier. It could also be very possible that the 007’s just are not for me no matter what the amp.

Anyhow, I’m still pretty much a Stax guy. New SR-303’s are on the way from ACubes. I’ve decided to spend less and just enjoy the music - at least for a while.
post #13 of 13
The problem Stax is facing the very high cost of an amp capable of pushing the Sr-007 properly. They are also not willing to invest the R&D to stop using the ancient SRA-3S. A Stax amp costs next to nothing to make because they have to make a profit and so does the distributor and dealer. There separate levels makes even a small increase in production costs a problem.
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