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Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - Page 30

post #436 of 9242
12/29/07 at 7:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post
Got it.
You see, I thought I was making an error calling it a pre-out, but that section is called a pre-amp, so what do you suppose is correct? Pre-out, or Line-out?
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post #437 of 9242
12/29/07 at 7:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper View Post
It was about time you threw away those 5532's !

How's the tonality? Is it a colorful sound?


Btw, I'd rather get the LM49720 than the LM4562..
Compared to the 5532s that were in there, I'd say this was an improvement in all aspects. What I still want to know is how much does the mainboard Opamp play in the final sound of the headphone amp?
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post #438 of 9242
12/29/07 at 9:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper View Post
Naturally it does play a part, it being one (necessary) opamp in the signal path. IMO you would want to take advantage of op-amp numerology to best match the DAC's and the amp's opamps. More numeric variety, better sound. With 627 and 4562 you have a decent variety but the "3" that is my personal favorite number is missing.

If the DY2000 is a 'boosted AD823' , it should go very well with the LME49720 or also the LM4562 and the LT1469.
In a very unique way, that makes sense. The deep deep bass of the 627s combined with the (slightly) ultra clear mids and highs of the LM4562. What is spooky or just plain luck, is the frequency response seems very flat throughout the entire spectrum! You would think combining properties of different Opamps would create a problem in this area. Very cool though!
When I get time, I'll try the stock Opamp on the main board and see if the headphone amp upgrade still shines. If it does, this could be a very easy improvement that anyone could do.
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post #439 of 9242
12/29/07 at 9:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper View Post
Naturally it does play a part, it being one (necessary) opamp in the signal path. IMO you would want to take advantage of op-amp numerology to best match the DAC's and the amp's opamps. More numeric variety, better sound. With 627 and 4562 you have a decent variety but the "3" that is my personal favorite number is missing.

If the DY2000 is a 'boosted AD823' , it should go very well with the LME49720 or also the LM4562 and the LT1469.
Where did you see reference that the DY2000 was a boosted AD823?
Ow, and don't forget, I have LT1364's coming. 2 regular and 2 unleaded.
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post #440 of 9242
12/30/07 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchum View Post
I can confirm that with the LM4562s in L&R sockets of the headphone board, the headphone amp is..is...IS BLOWING ME AWAY!!! All the great properties of the LM4562 are present and it is reaching way down low on the bass now. Super clean, super clear. My HD-650s were actually vibrating on those deep notes, even though I don't have the headphone amp cranked up! This means I'm hearing those 30Hz & below notes for the first time with the Zero's headphone amp! I'm sold! Gotta get me some more of these for my #2 Zero. What an amazing and inexpensive improvement!
Any chance of photos of this tweak?
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post #441 of 9242
12/30/07 at 9:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spookygonk View Post
Any chance of photos of this tweak?
Sure! It may take me a while today, but I'll try and get some taken.
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post #442 of 9242
12/30/07 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff J. View Post
I just tried the Zero as a pre-amp, and was unfortunately very disappointed.. I only have about 50hrs burn-in, but I dont think the preamp performance can be attributed to lack of burn in alone. The sound is a bit dull and muddy, nothing compared to the stellar headphone amp performance.
that's strange, I'm fairly sure that the headphone amp does the pre-amping duties

so i find it strange that it sounds good as a headphone amp and not as a pre-amp

maybe just a clash of sonic signatures? try some bright opamps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper View Post
I made a search and found a comment saying that the DY2000 sounds like an AD823 with more bass. It makes sense since they're both by AD and both dual. Then again d-cee said it has more resolution (probably resulting from the more stringent specifications required for military use...I would guess ).
well apparently the DY2000 is an AD chip commissioned by Filipino military

not many people like the AD823!! but I did, in my limited applications. but the DY2000 was universally accepted as working GREAT in the Zhaolu and I would assume the same in the Zero, but I could be wrong (let your ears be the judge)
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post #443 of 9242
12/30/07 at 10:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-cee View Post
that's strange, I'm fairly sure that the headphone amp does the pre-amping duties
Hi d-cee, we did a little testing yesterday and the exact opposite seems to be true. You can change out the mainboard Opamp and it has an effect on both the pre-out and headphone amp. You can change both Opamps in the headphone amp, and it has no effect on the pre-out! This is actually kinda cool because you could use an Opamp on the mainboard that makes your pre-out sound fantastic, then try different sets of Opamps on the headphone board until you have the headphone amp right where you want it. No effects in reverse (if you get my meaning).
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post #444 of 9242
12/30/07 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper View Post
That's precisely what I've been 'working on' since I ordered the Zero - you have enough proof in this thread


Of course the headphone amp can work as a preamp (volume controlled); but for that you would have to take the (pre)amplified signal from the headphone out - while the line out on the rear of the DAC remains a line out (around 2V output level, fixed).
True, true. But for simplicity's sake and first time Opamp rollers, getting them to understand you work the mainboard Opamp first to optimize the pre-out signature, then work the headphone boards Opamps to optimize for headphone type and tastes and "poof" you're done. Best of both worlds. Within a short period of time, combinations discovered can be documented here and others can pre-order Opamps that generically work best for their upcoming situation. How cool would that be?
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post #445 of 9242
12/30/07 at 11:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper View Post
Ok I might just put this DY2000 in the DAC, and then play with the LT1469 and LME49720 and LT1364 in the amp...
Thats the spirit! MB = DY2000 and HB = LT1364s.
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post #446 of 9242
12/30/07 at 11:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopper View Post
Just that with that I suspect you end up with almost too much 'aliveness'


Also there is a remote possibility that the LT1364 would be unstable in the headphoneamp.
Oh, ya for sure! There should be some kind of Title worked out for messages that contain "proven on the Zero combinations" so speculation will not get mixed up with the proven combinations. Any ideas?
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post #447 of 9242
12/30/07 at 11:42am
Thread Starter 
This combination I have in the Zero right now is amazing. I like to listen to old metal like Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Montrose and the like. I started listening to some Black Sabbath "SBS" this morning. What I find a little shocking is the clarity of the bass. It is deep, much more precise and detailed, on my HD-650s! Before now, the only way for me to hear this would have been on a 15ips master RTR recording thru my Vintage SPEC equipment! Anyway you look at this, it is a major improvement for the HD-650s.
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post #448 of 9242
12/30/07 at 12:41pm
I have a couple of AD797AN's and a couple of LME49720's (LM4562). Also an adapter for the 797's is on its way.

I have no use of the headphone amp in the Zero, as I want to use my Darkvoice 332.

Will any of these opamps be good choices for the DAC section?
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post #449 of 9242
12/30/07 at 12:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nor_spoon View Post
I have a couple of AD797AN's and a couple of LME49720's (LM4562). Also an adapter for the 797's is on its way.

I have no use of the headphone amp in the Zero, as I want to use my Darkvoice 332.

Will any of these opamps be good choices for the DAC section?
Sure. It will come down to personal tastes though. While you wait on the adapter, try the LM4562 and see how that sounds with your DV. When the adapter arrives, then try the 797s and see how that sounds with the DV.
If you use the default Opamp through the DV as a listening reference point, then improvements will be easy to identify. Good luck!!
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post #450 of 9242
12/30/07 at 1:03pm
Really looking forward to it! I'll try to give some impressions when I get some playing time with the dac.
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