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Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp - Page 155

post #2311 of 9242
4/2/08 at 2:19am
Would SPDIF out of a stand-alone sound card be better than out of my onboard sound (Realtek Audio)?
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post #2312 of 9242
4/2/08 at 4:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by souperman View Post
Would SPDIF out of a stand-alone sound card be better than out of my onboard sound (Realtek Audio)?
I believe this is strictly hardware dependent. As there are plenty of differences among pc motherboards with integrated audio and soundcards, if you manage to get a spare soundcard try yourself. Don't forget to disable all the software bells and whistles and enable SPDIF digital out... If possible install an ASIO driver as well and choos a reliable player such as Winamp or Foobar.

In my opinion ANY soundcard will affect audio quality anyway, so the quest for the bitperfect signal should consider this limitation.

Anyway, this soundcard should do the job nicely and it's quite cheap:

Chaintech AV710 Reviews
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post #2313 of 9242
4/2/08 at 9:51am
How is the SQ compares ibasso d1?
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post #2314 of 9242
4/2/08 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pincellone View Post
I believe this is strictly hardware dependent. As there are plenty of differences among pc motherboards with integrated audio and soundcards, if you manage to get a spare soundcard try yourself. Don't forget to disable all the software bells and whistles and enable SPDIF digital out... If possible install an ASIO driver as well and choos a reliable player such as Winamp or Foobar.

In my opinion ANY soundcard will affect audio quality anyway, so the quest for the bitperfect signal should consider this limitation.

Anyway, this soundcard should do the job nicely and it's quite cheap:

Chaintech AV710 Reviews
Just wondering why a different sound card's will have different digital out. To my limited understanding, it's just digital being outputed, so why would the 1's and 0's be different? Sorry I'm still quite new to this.

Does the onboard sound chip quality matter if using SPDIF? - Yahoo! Answers

That is where I got my idea about digital.
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post #2315 of 9242
4/2/08 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by souperman View Post
Just wondering why a different sound card's will have different digital out. To my limited understanding, it's just digital being outputed, so why would the 1's and 0's be different? Sorry I'm still quite new to this.

Does the onboard sound chip quality matter if using SPDIF? - Yahoo! Answers

That is where I got my idea about digital.
Yes, they are 0s and 1s but sometimes the sequence of these numbers (final digital output) might be different. Otherwise ANY soundcard would perform the very same job when passing data to a DAC.

In my experience this is not the case. Anybody else on this topic?
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post #2316 of 9242
4/2/08 at 3:51pm
It is because of the jitter. I'm sticking with USB capable DAC.
This is a good read -> nugent
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post #2317 of 9242
4/2/08 at 5:31pm
APOLOGIES are due before I write this reply. I know this has been answered previously in the 100+ pages of this Thread, but:

What's the best place to buy this unit? Is it still "supposed" to be purchased from Ebay? I'm not sure I trust the reliablity and shipping quality (who knows if it will even be well-packed and/or insured)

If many have had good experience buying these from Ebay, I'm going to get one because it sounds like a freakin' sweet unit I have used to WooAudio 3 and Gilmore V2 SE -- it'd be nice to have a HeadAmp / DAC that doesn't cost a newborn child to purchase :P

Thanks,
-Sdu/DK
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post #2318 of 9242
4/2/08 at 8:18pm
You could email directly to 'lawrencechanbig@msn.com' and he will send you a PayPal invoice. But there is no difference in my opinion. It's the same seller as the one on Ebay.
He will give you a tracking number, so you can follow the shipment.
This is the way I did it , that is how I know it is at the customs since the 25th of March
I know of no other seller, there was one but he turned out to be a scammer, he is no longer a member of Ebay.
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post #2319 of 9242
4/3/08 at 10:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by souperman View Post
Just wondering why a different sound card's will have different digital out. To my limited understanding, it's just digital being outputed, so why would the 1's and 0's be different? Sorry I'm still quite new to this.

Does the onboard sound chip quality matter if using SPDIF? - Yahoo! Answers

That is where I got my idea about digital.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pincellone View Post
Yes, they are 0s and 1s but sometimes the sequence of these numbers (final digital output) might be different. Otherwise ANY soundcard would perform the very same job when passing data to a DAC.

In my experience this is not the case. Anybody else on this topic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinew View Post
It is because of the jitter. I'm sticking with USB capable DAC.
This is a good read -> nugent
I can only give an opinion on this topic. I have read thousands of posts here and elsewhere about it, and they have not provided a solid foundation to call them a FACT. There are experts on both sides of this thing, and this does nothing but strengthen my opinion. I am not on either side of this.

While "Jitter" exists, it doesn't appear to be audible in 99.9% of audio at our level. Many wish to prevent it and spend money to prevent it, but they have never heard it. Many don't do anything about it, and they have never heard it either. Some push it like it was the most terrible thing that can happen to digital audio, but they haven't heard it either. A few claim to have heard it, but not in their system, so it is someone else's problem.

Knowing that audio problems can pile up, where one doesn't matter much, but many, one on top of the other, can create a situation that is audible, makes this issue very easy to deal with. Assume you don't have it. Get your system together, break it in, and enjoy the music. If you have an issue, you will hear it. If you don't hear it, then don't worry about it. Enjoy the music.

A great deal of time and effort is spent on "what if" situations around here and I believe that time and effort is better spent on "what is" and enjoying the music. Just my 2 cents. IMHO, YMMV.
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post #2320 of 9242
4/3/08 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchum View Post
I can only give an opinion on this topic. I have read thousands of posts here and elsewhere about it, and they have not provided a solid foundation to call them a FACT. There are experts on both sides of this thing, and this does nothing but strengthen my opinion. I am not on either side of this.

While "Jitter" exists, it doesn't appear to be audible in 99.9% of audio at our level. Many wish to prevent it and spend money to prevent it, but they have never heard it. Many don't do anything about it, and they have never heard it either. Some push it like it was the most terrible thing that can happen to digital audio, but they haven't heard it either. A few claim to have heard it, but not in their system, so it is someone else's problem.

Knowing that audio problems can pile up, where one doesn't matter much, but many, one on top of the other, can create a situation that is audible, makes this issue very easy to deal with. Assume you don't have it. Get your system together, break it in, and enjoy the music. If you have an issue, you will hear it. If you don't hear it, then don't worry about it. Enjoy the music.

A great deal of time and effort is spent on "what if" situations around here and I believe that time and effort is better spent on "what is" and enjoying the music. Just my 2 cents. IMHO, YMMV.
Wise answer Dave!
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post #2321 of 9242
4/3/08 at 11:46am
I think this is a good answer about jitter as well. Nothing to worry about until LOTS of other stuff is fixed first.

I think there's more concern to be had about getting the untouched file through the operating system and audio software and into the DAC. This I believe is audible. Making no changes other than operating system (XP vs. VISTA) I can hear differences on nothing but my Sony reciever with my Senn's.
From what I've read lately, a USB to TOSlink/Coax conversion running into an outboard DAC is the best way to do it. This means bypassing the soundcard completely.
What remains unclear to me is whether the file is untouched as it proceeds through the player, windows, hardware, etc. as it is converted to an optical or coaxial signal.
Some seem to think my cheap Behringer 202 is fine, others seem to think other software and better USB converters are needed.
P.S., To stay on topic, My ZERO DAC should be here today!!
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post #2322 of 9242
4/3/08 at 11:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal769 View Post
I think this is a good answer about jitter as well. Nothing to worry about until LOTS of other stuff is fixed first.

I think there's more concern to be had about getting the untouched file through the operating system and audio software and into the DAC. This I believe is audible. Making no changes other than operating system (XP vs. VISTA) I can hear differences on nothing but my Sony reciever with my Senn's.
From what I've read lately, a USB to TOSlink/Coax conversion running into an outboard DAC is the best way to do it. This means bypassing the soundcard completely.
What remains unclear to me is whether the file is untouched as it proceeds through the player, windows, hardware, etc. as it is converted to an optical or coaxial signal.
Some seem to think my cheap Behringer 202 is fine, others seem to think other software and better USB converters are needed.
P.S., To stay on topic, My ZERO DAC should be here today!!
Well, I guess we know what you'll be doing!

While I agree that the USB to TOSlink/Coaxial to outboard DAC is the "handiest" thing to do, I'm not entirely sold on the idea that USB should be bought and used instead of a built-in digital out. Most of the lower cost USB converters are USB 1.0 or 1.1, and there can be issues with the USB line getting too busy. I suppose if someone tried their built-in digital out and can't get it to behave, then the USB option would be worth spending additional monies on.

I'm sure the software issue is driven by what plug-ins are available and considered to be the best, and what Operating System is being used. I run Vista, so even the Creative player does very well in it's stock configuration. XP seems to require more setup and a better player app.

I think I would try the Behringer anyway. It may sound much better than you suspect. If not, you'll know! Let us know how all this is working.
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post #2323 of 9242
4/3/08 at 11:23pm
I found another really good opamp for the headphone out section. The AD746 works really good. I think it's replaced my OPA2107's and LT1364's. Great extension, and very good separation. It's also very musical sounding at the same time! This is of course, compared to the Zero with OPA2107 and LT1364's inside.
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post #2324 of 9242
4/4/08 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchum View Post
While I agree that the USB to TOSlink/Coaxial to outboard DAC is the "handiest" thing to do, I'm not entirely sold on the idea that USB should be bought and used instead of a built-in digital out. Most of the lower cost USB converters are USB 1.0 or 1.1, and there can be issues with the USB line getting too busy. I suppose if someone tried their built-in digital out and can't get it to behave, then the USB option would be worth spending additional monies on.
im not sold on the idea of a USB -> SPDIF converter either. a forumer i know (in another forum) had a bad experience with his with jitters etc and in the end he bought a Maya44 and uses coaxial out and it has been running without problems til now.

as for built in SPDIF vs soundcard SPDIF...

i have a low end MSI LGA775 mobo with a VIA chipset.... i managed to get the digital SPDIF out PCI bracket and plugged it into the mobo and used that with my Zero at first. used it for music and also playing CS Source. no problems watsoever and even had decent volume.

soundcard SPDIF (im using ESI Maya44)...no difference in terms of sound quality to me..but the volume for the ESI is significantly lower (knob at same level). i also tend to get jitters in sound with CS Source. thought not that often but it still happens....no idea why though.

and just to round it off....in terms of coaxial vs optical (both on the ESI Maya44)... no difference... ive tried plugging them both in at the same time and switching inputs via the front switch of the Zero. no difference
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post #2325 of 9242
4/4/08 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penchum View Post
*NOTE* I have an update for all Zero users. Thanks to other Zero users, the true "pre-amp" function (a volume controlled output feature) has been found.
If you press the button for Phones and the green light comes on, this means that "IF" a headphone is plugged in, the volume knob works for the headphone amp. If you don't plug in a headphone and the green light is on, the volume knob works for the DAC output! It was discovered by accident. If you need further clarification, don't hesitate to PM me directly. Thanks!! Penchum.
This confuses me a bit.

I have connected the ZERO's RCA out to my DarkVoice in.
Now, I've got two possibilities:

1. Green light on the ZERO is on: both volume control on the ZERO and the Darvoice control the sound volume.

2. Green light on the ZERO is off: only the volume control on the Darkvoice effects the volume.

From my limited knowledge the 2nd option is the 'true' pre-amp mode, no?

If not, should I set the volume on the ZERO to max in the first configuration?

Excuse my ignorance....
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