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markl Mod for Denon AH-D5000 (With Pics!) - Page 5

post #61 of 295
Thread Starter 
Quote:
By parity of reasoning, all subwoofers are defective, since deep bass does of necessity come with physical impact!
Respectfully disagree. The sub is reproducing musical information that makes waves in the air you can feel. It will sound tight and you will hear the sound of the bass itself. OTOH, if the cabinet of the sub rattled and farted and shook along with the bass notes, adding the sound of the cabinet resonances to the sound, that would be equivalent to what's happening with the Denons.

Speaker manufacturers spend eons working on ways to damp the sound to prevent vibrations in the cabinets. The more expensive speakers will have all kinds of bracing, inner chambers and use exotic materials to damp cabinet resonances. Why? Becuase they muddy the sound, reduce resolution and linearity. You should not be hearing the sound of the cabinet reproduced in the sound. Put your hands on the backs of the ear cups when you are cranking some bass-tastic music and feel how much those cups resonate. They shouldn't be doing that; the R10 does not do this, not even the Edition 9 with its monster bass does this. This mod, while effective, does not totally eliminate the shakes, but it sure helps.

Like I said, there's nothing "wrong" with liking the Denons in stock form. Whatever floats you boat. But since the mod is essentially reversible, it would be interesting if you would try it and see what you think. Cheers.
post #62 of 295
Thread Starter 
I just had another flash of inspiration....

I was just remembering the Tempur-pedic commercial where they show someone dancing on one side of the bed with a glass of wine on the other which of course does not spill a drop, implying that the material does not transfer even huge vibrations.

I've just ordered a free sample of the material from the Tempur-pedic site, and I think I'll be using this both to damp the sound in the ear cup and to create rings of tempur material to stick under the ear pads when I get my recabled D5000.

If that won't cancel out vibrations....
post #63 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
Sure, but I know Nik fairly well, and I'm certain he'll find the bass overwhelming, so the comment is aimed more at him. Nothing wrong with liking them as is.

But just to clarify, what happens with this mod is not so much a reduction in actual level of bass (though there is a mild one), what happens is more dramatic reduction in the shakes and shivers that the driver passes on the frame and that you feel rattling your skull. Brain interprets this vibration as bass content as it coincides with bass notes, and bass vibrates the air in real life. But it's not actual musical information, it's more like what happens when you sit on one of those gimmicky rump shaker plates that sit under your home theater seat and vibrate in time with the bass to increase your sense of bass presence.

Me, I don't miss all that distracting rattling around, it muddies the image, intrudes into the midrange, and reminds me I've got little drivers strapped to my skull, taking me out of the experience of music.

The damping is still not perfect and it still rattles more than I'd like, but the improvement over stock is still reasonably dramatic.
Yes, you are right about me...

But who knows if after e full burnin time the D5000 will go in the mod direction ??? How many hours of music played have your D5000?
post #64 of 295
If a modded Denon approaches R10 territory, the question begs 'what improvements could be seen in the Sony R10 by modifications? Even further than stock?'
post #65 of 295
Thread Starter 
Quote:
But who knows if after e full burnin time the D5000 will go in the mod direction ??? How many hours of music played have your D5000?
I had about 120 hours on it before the mod, I've put another 80 on it since then. There was some improvement with burn-in on the bass bloat, but not nearly enough. Any further changes post mod due to burn-in have been modest.

Quote:
If a modded Denon approaches R10 territory, the question begs 'what improvements could be seen in the Sony R10 by modifications? Even further than stock?'
These particular mods probably aren't relevant to the R10 which doesn't need any reduction in bass resonances as we all know , and the pads are already far enough away from the ears.
post #66 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
These particular mods probably aren't relevant to the R10 which doesn't need any reduction in bass resonances as we all know , and the pads are already far enough away from the ears.
I was not necessarily wondering about these specific modifications, but other mods (not sure what could be done on the Sonys) that may elevate the stock R10 even further?

Uncharted waters, to be sure.
post #67 of 295
Thread Starter 
But think of all the nerves and shaking and anxiety as you cut into your $4K irreplaceable headphone.

It takes a very steady hand....
post #68 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
Respectfully disagree. The sub is reproducing musical information that makes waves in the air you can feel. It will sound tight and you will hear the sound of the bass itself. OTOH, if the cabinet of the sub rattled and farted and shook along with the bass notes, adding the sound of the cabinet resonances to the sound, that would be equivalent to what's happening with the Denons.[...]
OK! I should have noted that I've never noticed any rattling/farting. Maybe I'm not listening to it loud enough for those effects. But I have had my share of skull-shaking by the D5000 with organ music and movie LF effects. It's mainly the idea of attenuating the bass that scared me in your proposal. That would be non-negotiable with me. Apart from that, we want better soundstaging and build quality, no doubt about it. Still, the Denon's build quality is better than that of many revered phones in their price range. I think you've been a little unfair to them in that regard.

Thanks for the mod!
post #69 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
I just had another flash of inspiration....

I was just remembering the Tempur-pedic commercial where they show someone dancing on one side of the bed with a glass of wine on the other which of course does not spill a drop, implying that the material does not transfer even huge vibrations.

I've just ordered a free sample of the material from the Tempur-pedic site, and I think I'll be using this both to damp the sound in the ear cup and to create rings of tempur material to stick under the ear pads when I get my recabled D5000.

If that won't cancel out vibrations....
Sweet, will do the same
post #70 of 295
Have you seen the for sale section? What have you done, Markl?!
post #71 of 295
Thread Starter 
LOL, looks like one guy determined to get a D5000 or a D2000...


Eventually, I'm going to write a review where I compare the mod-ed Denon with the R10 and point out the places where each one does what the other can't. They aren't total doppelgangers, and I'm sorry if I gave anyone that impression.

That said, there is no headphone I've heard that has essentially the same tone as the R10 except for the Denon D5000. In terms of tone, they are so close, it's eerie, though again, there are subtle differences.

To be clear, a mod-ed D5000 is NOT an R10. Yet there are similarities that can't be denied, similarities I haven't heard in any other headphone. But they are not one and the same, and obtaining a D5000 and mod-ing it will not give you an R10. Some may prefer the mod-ed D5000, others the R10.

Me, I'm still trying to decide. I like them both so much...

Clear? OK...
post #72 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
Put your hands on the backs of the ear cups when you are cranking some bass-tastic music and feel how much those cups resonate. They shouldn't be doing that; the R10 does not do this, not even the Edition 9 with its monster bass does this. This mod, while effective, does not totally eliminate the shakes, but it sure helps.

Like I said, there's nothing "wrong" with liking the Denons in stock form. Whatever floats you boat. But since the mod is essentially reversible, it would be interesting if you would try it and see what you think. Cheers.
I wonder if your Denon's are defective Mark. Mine don't vibrate nearly as bad as you are saying yours do. You can definitely feel the bass in them, but they are not shaking out of control. Or we could just have different opinions of them, who knows.
post #73 of 295
Thread Starter 
Different opinions.
post #74 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
I've just ordered a free sample of the material from the Tempur-pedic site, and I think I'll be using this both to damp the sound in the ear cup and to create rings of tempur material to stick under the ear pads when I get my recabled D5000.

If that won't cancel out vibrations....
I've got a better idea. Get some AeroGel. It's a lot cheaper than it once was, back in its primitive comet dust collecting days.
post #75 of 295
What songs and volume are you listening at? Maybe the D2000 is different, but I can't feel anything when I touch the outer cups.
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