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markl Mod for Denon AH-D5000 (With Pics!) - Page 13

post #181 of 295
Thread Starter 
Quote:
What happened to the Aerogel?
Haven't received it yet, but I know from experience with Tempur, if you put too much damping you lose all bass. I expect if you fill all open spaces in the Denon with Aerogel, then it will be even worse than Tempur.
post #182 of 295
Ok, well I finally did the earpad mod. I'm not sure how I feel about it. The bass definitely tightened up and isn't as bloated, but you lose a lot of the intimacy and closeness to the instruments, especially the piano. I think the Denon's were designed and optimized for the position from the ears they already are. I might undo this mod and try the dampening one.

Edit: I reversed the earpad mod and almost had a cow trying to get the earpad to come off. It took forever. It's more comfortable without the mod (and I used soft foam, from the inside of a Beyer headband pad). I personally feel the sound is warmer and more intimate, and also more tonally accurate in stock Denon mode.

So you're advantage with the earpad mod is that you tame the bass a little but lose the intimacy and tonal accuracy of all the other instruments... that doesn't work for me. Maybe when I'm feeling more daring I'll give the dampening mod a try, but I only want to do it once. So hopefully you'll have experimented with all the goodies by then, Mark.
post #183 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
Ok, well I finally did the earpad mod. I'm not sure how I feel about it. The bass definitely tightened up and isn't as bloated, but you lose a lot of the intimacy and closeness to the instruments, especially the piano. I think the Denon's were designed and optimized for the position from the ears they already are. I might undo this mod and try the dampening one.

Edit: I reversed the earpad mod and almost had a cow trying to get the earpad to come off. It took forever. It's more comfortable without the mod (and I used soft foam, from the inside of a Beyer headband pad). I personally feel the sound is warmer and more intimate, and also more tonally accurate in stock Denon mode.

So you're advantage with the earpad mod is that you tame the bass a little but lose the intimacy and tonal accuracy of all the other instruments... that doesn't work for me. Maybe when I'm feeling more daring I'll give the dampening mod a try, but I only want to do it once. So hopefully you'll have experimented with all the goodies by then, Mark.
You and I have a complete difference in opinions but that's the fun part about audio I'm glad that you tried it but your right, it's not for everyone. Enjoy the music
post #184 of 295
Thread Starter 
Quote:
You and I have a complete difference in opinions but that's the fun part about audio
x2. I just can't listen to these phones stock. The mod-ed cans are light years better. The reasons IPodPJ seems to like them are the exact same things I'm trying to correct in them, so there ya go. To each his own.

BTW, I received the Aerogel, and I have to say, this is a completely worthless material as far as I can see, I don't see any obvious application for it. No doubt the weirdest stuff I've ever handled, bizarre. It came in a plastic bottle and consists of very small odd-sized beads. When you touch it, it sucks all the moisture out of your skin. But press it gently in between your fingers and it crumbles into dust and evaporates into thin air. It's almost supernaturally light weight, the material that wasn't there.

Eerie stuff, but of no conceivable use for our purposes here. I was expecting it would be more gelatinous, kinda like gummi bears. Oh. well.
post #185 of 295
I did the pad mod on my D2000s using the Foamies brand foam. I have to agree with most that both bass and soundstage are improved, and I much prefer the new sound.

A little bit of weight has been added to the cans as I used 4 foam pads in each earpad, but it's not too much. Just took a bit of getting used to.

I also think that they are a little more comfortable now, if that is possible.

The nice thing about using the foamies, is that they can be cut to fit perfectly and require no tape or any other support.
post #186 of 295
I tried the dynamat, fibreloft and earpad mods. I think I enjoyed it most with just the dynamat mod, though bass was just a little too present, still.

Adding foam underearpads seems to take away some of the immediacy from the sound.

I think the dynamat does a good job of reducing resonances in the earcup and in the plastics around the driver. The fibreloft almost becomes unnessary.

Good being able to tweak the headphone to your own preferences - I wonder what it would have been like prior to the dynamat, as it was one of the first things I put on and now it seems I'm pretty much stuck with it - it's very difficult to remove.
post #187 of 295
Thread Starter 

Updates & More Tips For Denon Mod...

Quote:
I tried the dynamat, fibreloft and earpad mods. I think I enjoyed it most with just the dynamat mod, though bass was just a little too present, still.
Gotta be very very sparing with the Fiberloft. I suggest a very thin layer; pull it apart and spread it so it isn't so dense. Dig a bit out in the middle where the butt of the driver goes. At most, before closing it back up, thin, pulled apart Fiberloft should stick out no more than 1/4" over the lip of the cup. Too much will damp the sound too much. When you rea-attach the ear cup to the headphone assembly, the Fiberloft should not cause any pressure that pushed the cup out so you have to clamp it down to get it to stay. It should fit just easily as if there was no Fiberloft at all.

Quote:
Adding foam underearpads seems to take away some of the immediacy from the sound.
Here's another tip I highly recommend. Put no padding under the forward part of the pad. Only put padding on the rear side of the pad, tapering it down as is comes closer to the front, as seen here:



Why? This does a few positive things:

1. Angles the driver like the R10 (and some AudioTechnicas), further closing the gap in the middle of the image. You now have no double image of the singer left and right, they converge into a single, solid image in the middle. Singer also seems to take a step forward in the mix (and doesn't get quite as lost in the mix), closer in perspective to what the R10 delivers.

2. Preserves more of the upper midrange and highs, which are slightly recessed on the D5000.

This may be harder for folks that have used layers of foam, but I highly recommend it.


OK, so I got my Moon Audio Blue Dragon V.3 re-cabled D5000. The V.3 is not yet up on his site, it uses single crystal copper, of obviously hyper-purity. Drew does nice work, and was extremely pleasant to deal with and very prompt.

I do have one nit pick which is that (for me), it would have been nicer if the place where the two cables that go to the ear cups attach together at the base of the Y were a couple of inches lower down, but that's a minor annoyance.

The brand new on the market Furutech plug on this thing is THE BOMB. It will destroy all other plugs. It's insanely well made and heavy, I love it:



I've burned the re-cabled phone in for 125 hours. Did a ridiculous amount of A/B-ing at the end and along the way with my existing stock cable markl-mod-ed phone. So I was essentially able to A/B two identically mod-ed cans, one with the Blue Dragon V.3 the other with a stock cable.

The result? Well, the stock cable is clearly an oustanding performer for a stock cable. Even though it had several dis-advantages in having the 1/4" plug stacked on top of the supplied 1/8" plug and was further attached to my 2m Sonic Horizons Hurricane extension cord, it still managed to sound great. The re-cabled Denon has 17 feet of Blue Dragon, so no extension was necesary.

Even on my very revealing and not exactly inexpensive front end, the differences, I must admit were subtle. The chief differences are as follows:

1. Blue Dragon V.3 is smoother and more solid sounding. Sounds have slightly more body and weight. Stock cable sounds slightly thinner and lighter in weight and leaner in tone.

2. Blue Dragon V.3 has a nice (but subtle) extra warmth to it that I really appreciate. It's a yummy cable, first class tonality.

3. Stock cable has a slight mid-range suck-out centered around where male voices occur that the Blue Dragon helps repair and fill in a bit, but this is still something inherent in the Denon.

4. Stock cable has an extra sparkle to the top end that sticks out a bit, where the Blue Dragon (at 125 hours of burn-in) has yet to fully replicate. OTOH, the Blue Dragon's treble is better integrated with the rest of the sound than the stock cable which has that teeny spike up high like a super-tweeter on a badly integrated speaker. Blue Dragon strips away this teeny tiny layer of extra " sugary sheen" that the stock cable has. Some people might miss this, even if they admit it shouldn't be there. Blue Dragon is more integrated and coherent top-to-bottom, plus is more organic and natural sounding.

5. Blue Dragon is better at separating individual instruments from one another than the stock cord.


In the end, I ended up adding a bit more Dynamat to the final product than was pictured previously. For me, the previous level of Dynamat used still left a bit too much bass bloat. It took some experimenting to find what works best for me, trial and error.

I didn't take pics of the final result, but here is what I settled on:

I added a couple extra strips of Dynamat to the outer edges of the inside of the ear cups. I chose to put the extra damping in the portion that was closer to the back of my neck at the bottom, and close to my temples on the top. These are the spots I was still most conscious of vibrations. The extra strips therefore go here (green lines):



I also put a little extra Dynamat inside on the rear of the driver assembly itself. The Dynamat outlined in red was removed by me as being too much damping, I don't recommend putting any there. The green circles indicate a thin strip of Dynamat that wraps around the outer edges of the butts of the drivers. That is recommended highly:



IMO, this gives you the exact right amount of Dynamat and right amount of bass damping.

*phew*

After a while, I intend to re-write this whole thing in a more coherent way, so people see the step by step of what I consider the best degree/level/materials/amount of mods.



BTW, if you would like to purchase my stock cable Dynamat/Fiberloft mod-ed Denon, check out the classifieds, it's for sale.

Cheers.
post #188 of 295
I have to agree with IPodPJ. After I did the ear pad mod (see my post with pictures in this thread) I realized I was missing something. I found out I was missing the intimacy and closeness of the sound without the mod so I removed the extra pads.

What I kept was a slim strip of damping paterial I put around the back of the speaker. That little strip really helped clearing out the sound and defining the instruments better. it is basically the same thing that markl is showing in his last post (green circles) but instead of using Dynamat I used a dampening material from partsexpress.com It is self adhesive easy to put in place and remove. It made of some kind of rubber material so it is very easy to cut and mold.
post #189 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman59 View Post
I have to agree with IPodPJ. After I did the ear pad mod (see my post with pictures in this thread) I realized I was missing something. I found out I was missing the intimacy and closeness of the sound without the mod so I removed the extra pads.

What I kept was a slim strip of damping paterial I put around the back of the speaker. That little strip really helped clearing out the sound and defining the instruments better. it is basically the same thing that markl is showing in his last post (green circles) but instead of using Dynamat I used a dampening material from partsexpress.com It is self adhesive easy to put in place and remove. It made of some kind of rubber material so it is very easy to cut and mold.
Can you post a part number or a link when you have time please
post #190 of 295
I figured out a killer way to make your Denon's sound almost perfect. See the chain of audio operations in my signature. If you get that far, let me know and I will tell you what settings I am using for ATSurrounder. Aside from giving you a full-rounded sound, you can push the center channel back further and decide how wide you want to make it. It hasn't altered the quality or tone of the instruments but makes the music less fatiguing to listen to (almost like upsampling, but without the muddiness upsampling brings) and enhances the soundstage tremendously.

Try this simple audio processing before you go ahead and mod your headphones. This might work for you.
post #191 of 295
I'm thinking that all you have done I can have just amplifing the D5000 with the Yamamoto... (it is just an opinion)... if you can, try a stock D5000 with this little jewel amp and tell me if will be necessary to do any mod...

Best!
Nik
post #192 of 295
Thread Starter 
Nik,
Though I haven't heard it, I'd bet money that the Yamamato is a typical tube amp, and therefore, not exceptionally powerful with not much drive for low-Z phones like the Denon. It probably can't deliver enough juice to fully power the bass of the D5000 and so naturally rolls it and attenuates it. Becuase tubes clip so gently and naturally, it's probably hard to notice it's clipping at all. You also listen at lower volumes than me, which will also obviously attenuate bass.


Quote:
I have to agree with IPodPJ. After I did the ear pad mod (see my post with pictures in this thread) I realized I was missing something. I found out I was missing the intimacy and closeness of the sound without the mod so I removed the extra pads.
One man's "intimacy" is another man's "shouting in my ear". Still, you should try the half-pad mod I showed a picture of earlier; it will help maintain "intimacy" and high-frequency response.
post #193 of 295
markl, when I listen the D5000 with my PS Audio I can find all those thinks you do not like of the cans... uncontrolled bass (for example..., too much bass and os on...).

The Yamamoto sounds like a SE (triode) amp (that are my preferred sound), this kind of sound remember my Air Tight 300B amp driving the K1000.

Yes the Yammy do not have a strong and powerfull bass, but this is OK for a can have this so mutch, or not?

Med range of SE triode amp are (IMO) absolutely the very best (think to WE 300b f.e.), highest are silky and for a denon with 25 ohm and 106 db this is also a medicine...

I like the combo a lot !

Best!
Nik
post #194 of 295
Thread Starter 
Hi Nik, pretty much as I guessed. Well, I suppose, that's an alternative way to tame the Denons....
post #195 of 295
I agree about doing the half-pad mod, it doesnt have that sense of "losing intimacy" like the full-pad mod which was starting to bother me some.
I got rid of the full-pad mod a week ago and consciously noticed rattling vibration from the cups for the first time. I was listening to them loudly to help drown out some noise and the vibrations were very noticeable. This weekend I am going to get some of that dynamat from circuit city and dampen my headphones markl style.
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