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markl Mod for Denon AH-D5000 (With Pics!) - Page 11

post #151 of 295
I'm still waiting to decide if I should use the Tempur material or go the Sponge/Cotton. I only want to do this mod once so I would like to get it right the first time.

I'm beginning to think that the original sponge/cotton mod is the best bet, since that has seemed to have recieved the most praise thus far.

Any further comments from Markl on the Tempur versus Sponge/Cotton mods would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
post #152 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmilhan View Post

I'm beginning to think that the original sponge/cotton mod is the best bet, since that has seemed to have recieved the most praise thus far.
That's only because it doesn't seem to be that anyone else has done the Tempur mod yet.
post #153 of 295
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Any further comments from Markl on the Tempur versus Sponge/Cotton mods would be greatly appreciated.
I may try the Tempur mod one more time with an even thinner slice than I used the last time. You have to be real careful with that stuff, but it has some promise.

Right now, I've just got plain old cotton stuffed into the back of the ear cups right now. It sounds the most like stock, is the least dampening of the bass, and might be appropriate for people who just want to tame the bass a hair or two. I've only gotten to listen to the plain cotton mod once for about 20 minutes, need to do some more listening.

I have other materials on order in the mail to me to, but this madness has to stop soon.
post #154 of 295
sounds like its time to put the denon down and enjoy the r10s hehehe
post #155 of 295
Thread Starter 
Tempur Mod Update
So I had some time to try Tempur one last time. This time I cut it down to between 1/8" and 1/4" around the edges, and slightly less than 1/8" in the region directly behind the driver. Well, using this little Tempur yields results similar to cotton, but maybe slightly better. It leaves the sound only slightly modified, your head will still vibrate quite a bit to the sound of the bass. Not enough containment for me, maybe enough for you.

Conclusion: Getting the right amount of Tempur is tricky as the devil and could keep you up nights, but as a pure dampening material, it is the most effective I've tried so far, even if I failed to find the exact amount that yields the best dampening without too much curtailment of bass.


Then it hit me. In listening to this latest Tempur mod, all of a sudden I had a flash. Why am I still getting so much vibration? Well, duh, dummy, it's because you are dampening the wrong thing.

What is passing on vibration to the rest of the frame? Is it the wooden earcups to which you are applying all this damping? No. It's the driver assembly, the round plastic housing of the driver that is transmitting all this non-musical information. So why am I trying to damp the ear cups, which are only *responding* to the vibration generated by the driver assembly? You are treating the symptom and not the cause.

The problem is that the only mod I've tried so far which would have damped the driver assembly was when I used a huge chunk of Tempur that, when squeezed into the space behind the driver, actually made contact with the rear of the driver assembly and held it firmly in place. When that was done, as you will recall, a LOT of bass information was cut out, in an unacceptable manner.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!

Much to my chagrin, this opens up a new area for damping, namely the driver assembly itself. Damping this will need a material that can cling to the assembly without smothering it like the full Tempur mod did.

I don't know where this is going right now or what I will do. But I have a few other materials headed my way that I will try, while also considering how to *gently* damp the driver assembly portion of the Denon.

post #156 of 295
I don't know if you've tried it, but maybe rubber washers on the screws that connect the driver to the driver housing? Should be no more then a quarter each at home dept.

Computer modders do this to fans to prevent vibrations passing onto the case where their volume is greatly amplified. Seems like the same sort of theory might apply.
post #157 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
I don't know where this is going right now or what I will do. But I have a few other materials headed my way that I will try, while also considering how to *gently* damp the driver assembly portion of the Denon.
Check out the Fitz modded W5000 here.

He was able to effect bass response by using blue-tak on the driver.

I haven't opened the cups on my Denons, so I don't know how accessible the drivers are, but you may be inspired by some of the discussion in the Fitz mod thread.

Good luck markl, and keep on experimenting. I'm planning on picking up the D5Ks when I'm in Japan soon.

Rob
post #158 of 295
Thread Starter 
OK, so I decided I need a base-line. It's been a long time since I listened to the Denons without anything in the ear cups (ear pad mod still in full effect, though). So I removed everything from the ear cup and let it go naked...

Yikes! There again is that bass-tastic sound that farts and bubbles and blows air all around. That's what I've been trying to contain.

Almost anything stuffed carefully in the ear cups (in moderation) is an improvement over stock.


I have to let it go here for today. In the next couple days I should have some more materials to play with.

The important thing is to note the following:

1. The Denons are in fact essentially flawed headphones out of the box. FWIW, I can't imagine being able to listen to the stock cans and willing myself to like it despite all the obvious problems.

2. There is a strong possibility that these flaws can be (largely) overcome with the correct mods, yielding a headphone that might be a world-beater.

I've come close to the Promised Land, but I'm not quite there yet. I hope that eventually, I can find just the right combo of mods to make this can all it can be, which will be quite a formidable phone. I intend to do what it takes to try all reasonable solutions until I arrive at what I think is the best result. I'll report it here, of course.
post #159 of 295
I have a suggestion to make that may reduce the risk of stripping the thread in the wooden cup.

Get some furniture makers wax, and place a small ammount in the hole and/or on the screw before reassembly.

I haven't tried this, and haven't seen the D5000s in the flesh. It may not work, and it may even make the damage worse.

However, I have put together a few guitars from parts, and this is a useful trick when screwing and tightening the necks of fender style guitars. It was recommended in a book by Dan Erlwhine.

The wax seems to ease the tightening process, and also forms some strength to the wooden screw thread.
post #160 of 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuseMan View Post
I have to say, these really have transformed. I listened to Porcupine Tree's latest album last night and it was a revelatory experience! The detail of these phones increased tremendously and the bass is as tight as a drum.
So you markl moded D2000? What were your cups inside? With piece of white stuffing or empty? If empty I assume you did sponge mod, if stuff was already there what did you do?

Sorry for hitting you with so many questions, I'm planning to do this mod, but don't want to open my cans as yet, still haven't got my cable for intended re-cable ready (and don't want to unscrew/screw these small screws too often for obvious reasons).

Cheers
post #161 of 295
Markl,

The above poster's suggestion about using standard speaker stuffing is probably where you want to go next for the cup filler. This is used in speakers to tighten up the base and fool the drivers somehow into thinking they have more air, from what I've read.

Regarding vibration in the driver and any other component, you should move toward paint on dampening compounds manufactured specifically for these purposes.

I would recommend Quiet Solutions Quiet Coat. This is a thick, paint on polymer that is very effective in reducing vibration and sound transmittance in thin walled materials like metal and plastic sheeting. I used it on some exposed metal HVAC ducts in my basement. It works as advertised.

Finally, in my experience, the ultimate mod for the Denon 5000 is to cut off the phono plug and hardwire the cans directly to the amp outputs. I realize you won't do this with your Rudistor amp, but you should buy a relatively inexpensive amp and hear the difference for yourself.
post #162 of 295
I have the D2000's and I tried the earpad/cushion mod. I was really interested in the results of the thread and so I tried it even though I didnt have any cotton laying around. So instead I took a microfiber towel and stuffed that into my earpads. I didnt use any tape cause its tight to where nothing will be moving. I will check again in a few days of using them to see if anything has shifted. The cushions are huge now. My girlfriend came home and had a good laugh.
I have only listened for a few hours, but I do believe that they sound better in terms that its harder to realize that you have speakers attached to the sides of your head. I also agree with that their is a larger soundstage. Right now I am looking for songs that were irritating my ears through the headphones before the mod. An example, Comin' From Where I'm From by Anthony Hamilton, used to hurt my ears with the bass, but now its bearable - actually, its quite nice. Ive also tried listening to bass lean music from before mod, and the bass doesnt sound noticeably different after mod.

I have had the headphones on for almost four hours now (at a volume slightly louder than usual), and no headaches! A good sign.

(Im a noob - I dont even have an amp yet so please read my posts with extra caution)
post #163 of 295
Hi Phil,

Could you post pics of the towel that you used?

Thanks,

Rob
post #164 of 295
Pictures of the microfiber towel and the headphones.
I dont know if these sound as good as using the cotton, but they were simple to place and should be simple to remove since it was just one piece of towel per cushion instead of many small pieces of cotton. I just cut one of these towels in two and rolled them and placed underneath the plastic (in the same fashion as described in markl's mod). It was just a quick way for me to try it, since I didnt have the cotton. They sound fine, and I dont think the bass vibrations in the cups are a big problem with D2000 as they are with the D5000 and so I dont know if I will do anything further for now.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/19192229@N06/1919948490/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1919222...n/photostream/
post #165 of 295
BTW, rlanger or if anyone tries the microfiber towel, please post your results on the SQ so as to help me compare...
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