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The Voyager: A new portable amp by Graham Slee - Page 6  

post #76 of 90
11/1/07 at 1:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fkclo View Post
This is stated in the Voyager homepage :

"No surface-mount that could slow the harmonic response through capacitive coupling of cramped packaged components"

Honestly I do not know whether this is a lie or not, and would appreciate thoughts from anyone here.

More, I would be grateful if those more technically savvy minds can share with us the pros and cons of SMDs in audio application. That would be good education.

F. Lo
Look at the chart at the bottom. It compares the two most commonly used packages for audio, and pincount. Dip-8 and SO-8.
http://www.minicircuits.com/pages/pdfs/dg02-23a.pdf
Notice the values are small, but still the SMD mount SOIC-8 part has half the inductance and capacitance of the DIP equivalent.

Here is a powerpoint presentation from Berkely University, It specifically mentions that SMD has better frequency response than through-hole.
http://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/fo...tro_to_SMT.ppt


Quote:
SMDs have improved performance over through-hole components due to their smaller size, shorter internal leads, and smaller board layouts. These factors reduce the circuit’s parasitic inductance and capacitance.
SOURCE: http://poeth.com/smtmfg.htm


Quote:
Main advantages

The main advantages of SMT over the older through-hole technique are:
  • smaller, lighter components
  • fewer holes need to be drilled through abrasive boards
  • simpler automated assembly
  • small errors in component placement are corrected automatically (the surface tension of the molten solder pulls the component into alignment with the solder pads)
  • components can be fitted to both sides of the circuit board
  • lower lead resistance and inductance (leading to better performance for high frequency parts)
  • better mechanical performance under shake and vibration conditions.
  • SMT parts generally cost less than through-hole part
  • less unwanted RF signal effects in SMT parts, when compared to leaded parts, which results in better predictability of component characteristics.
Main disadvantages
  • The manufacturing processes for SMT are much more sophisticated than through-hole boards, raising the initial cost and time of setting up for production.
  • Difficulty in manual handling due to the very small sizes and lead spacings of SMDs, making component-level repair of devices, or manual prototype assembly extremely difficult, and often uneconomical.
The part in red is the REAL reason why they used through-hole, and as you can see, what they said on their website is a flat out lie.
post #77 of 90
11/1/07 at 1:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnGnome View Post
One of the things that have really bitten me with this amp, is how they justify their choice of through-hole tech.

Through-hole isn't bad, and there is reasons to use it. However, they decided to completely fabricate lies to justify their choice.

What is even worse, is when people not only accept these lies, but when they decide to knowingly overlook them. Because of a manufacturers reputation.
definitely the company should edit the ridiculous wording on that web page, it's embarrassingly bad.
post #78 of 90
11/1/07 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by senny-ftw View Post
About the cost - regardless of the exchange rate it's an expensive portable, but I believe the sound quality and effortless power from this amp makes it worth the money.
I have tried to put numbers to the costs of some portable amps in the UK. The shipping costs are my guesses:-

AMP S&H Ttl
Voyager£180£8£188
Hornet£177£20£197 **
SR-71£190£20£210 **
AE-2£168£20£188 **
Corda Move£1350£135

** Possible 20 - 25% customs charge in addition to above. Of course, the Move is no longer available.
post #79 of 90
11/1/07 at 6:39am
[QUOTE=LawnGnome;3402879]Look at the chart at the bottom. It compares the two most commonly used packages for audio, and pincount. Dip-8 and SO-8.
http://www.minicircuits.com/pages/pdfs/dg02-23a.pdf
Notice the values are small, but still the SMD mount SOIC-8 part has half the inductance and capacitance of the DIP equivalent.

Here is a powerpoint presentation from Berkely University, It specifically mentions that SMD has better frequency response than through-hole.
http://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/fo...tro_to_SMT.ppt



SOURCE: http://poeth.com/smtmfg.htmQUOTE]

Thanks for the sharing. This is interesting information to learn.

F. Lo
post #80 of 90
11/1/07 at 8:16am
yes, good info

but at the end of the day it's the SQ that matters over tech specs
post #81 of 90
11/1/07 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnGnome View Post
They don't claim to use boutique parts?

Also, Since when is AD boutique? Also, is a 1$ connector now considered boutique? The only part that can be considered boutique is the Muse.


I also noticed you failed to refute this part I mentioned on.

This is a problem with Head-fi. You can't disagree with anyone because they take every comment like a personal attack. No wonder people laugh at us.

Suck up to every designer, and delete comments that speak bad about any of them. It's like a bought review site.


EDIT: but I don't think you should be commenting on many of my arguments, since by your own admission.



So I'm not even sure you know when I talk about the much better ground plane shielding you can implement with double layer PCB. Or even what cap brands are considered generic.
Sounding rude is defintely not my intention but however I have read lawngnome posts in quite a few threads and what I noticed was its only about finding faults not one constructive post or review or opinion....Just was just tempted to say this...

Since when did sr60 become a hi fi head phone?since when did a Pimped up ppav2 become a high end amp ..Well the dt770 I wont consider that high end head phone simply for the fact its custom made for bassheads lol...So i am sure any amp by graham in comparision would sound like heaven

As you see lawngnome u find your possesions are worthy of being considered as hi fi so I am sure mr graham slee had his own intention when he considered the components in his amp as good.

Plus in general judging any product just based on what it looks like on the net(worse) and passing comments is not becoming ......


however i would not be buying a voyager though
post #82 of 90
11/1/07 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-cee View Post
yes, good info

but at the end of the day it's the SQ that matters over tech specs
There's only so much you can do with 9V batteries.

And add the fact it's twice as large and ugly as it's competitors.

Either way, it's still DISTURBING!!!



-Ed
post #83 of 90
11/1/07 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwood View Post
There's only so much you can do with 9V batteries.

And add the fact it's twice as large and ugly as it's competitors.

Either way, it's still DISTURBING!!!



-Ed
Isn't this another one of those 'I haven't heard it, but I don't like it' comments?
post #84 of 90
11/1/07 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-cee View Post
yes, good info

but at the end of the day it's the SQ that matters over tech specs
This isn't about either. It is about a flat out lie to the consumer, knowing that most people won't be bothered to actually figure out that they are intentionally being lied to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsaxin View Post
Sounding rude is defintely not my intention but however I have read lawngnome posts in quite a few threads and what I noticed was its only about finding faults not one constructive post or review or opinion....Just was just tempted to say this...

Since when did sr60 become a hi fi head phone?since when did a Pimped up ppav2 become a high end amp ..Well the dt770 I wont consider that high end head phone simply for the fact its custom made for bassheads lol...So i am sure any amp by graham in comparision would sound like heaven

As you see lawngnome u find your possesions are worthy of being considered as hi fi so I am sure mr graham slee had his own intention when he considered the components in his amp as good.

Plus in general judging any product just based on what it looks like on the net(worse) and passing comments is not becoming ......


however i would not be buying a voyager though
Please show me where I mentioned its sound quality.

I never ONCE mentioned its sound quality. I only mentioned its construction quality, and the lies from the manufacturer.

Either way, just because someone can't afford nice gear, doesn't mean they haven't listened to it.
post #85 of 90
11/1/07 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 
OK, is the defecation on the Voyager over? So far the feces that has been dumped is:

- Amp looks like feces.
- Amp uses feces for components.
- The builder is a liar.
- The amp is poorly built.
- The amp is to big.
- The case is made of feces.
- The OP (me) is an ignoramus who can barely understand the highly technical stuff being discussed by some of the posters in this thread.

I hope my summary above is complete. If yes can we move to how it sounds? Of course this mean you post to ask a question about its sound or to post on your impressions after listening to the Voyager.

If the throwing of feces is to continue then this thread should be closed.

Note to moderator(s): I hope the use of the words "feces" and "defecation" is not against the forum rules.
post #86 of 90
11/1/07 at 8:24pm
LMAO! Miguel that post was hilarious - I spit my drink on my keyboard. Excellent.
post #87 of 90
11/1/07 at 9:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
LMAO! Miguel that post was hilarious - I spit my drink on my keyboard. Excellent.
post #88 of 90
11/1/07 at 9:12pm
hilarious and well put. welcome back (I've been out of town).
post #89 of 90
11/1/07 at 10:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarroyo View Post
OK, is the defecation on the Voyager over? So far the feces that has been dumped is:

- Amp looks like feces.
- Amp uses feces for components.
- The builder is a liar.
- The amp is poorly built.
- The amp is to big.
- The case is made of feces.
- The OP (me) is an ignoramus who can barely understand the highly technical stuff being discussed by some of the posters in this thread.

I hope my summary above is complete. If yes can we move to how it sounds? Of course this mean you post to ask a question about its sound or to post on your impressions after listening to the Voyager.

If the throwing of feces is to continue then this thread should be closed.

Note to moderator(s): I hope the use of the words "feces" and "defecation" is not against the forum rules.

So you have no problem with manufacturers lying to their consumers flat out?

Nice to know you think this is acceptable practice. Hopefully you aren't in management.
post #90 of 90
11/1/07 at 10:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnGnome View Post
... Hopefully you aren't in management.
Is making a sarcastic remark and what I am interpreting as a personal attack the best you can do? You know (or should know) that I am in management since I wrote so in post #66 here in response to your post #61.

Quote:
...managing and directing projects...

IMO when someone in two separate occasions resorts to personal attacks and insults then there is nothing else to be said. Moderators please close this thread!

IMO harmony is impossible to be maintained since LawnGnonme will not let go and continuous for some reason to move this thread from a sound impression and overall experiences of the various owners/users of the Voyager to an all out attack and now he is resorted to "name calling".

Thanks.

Edit 1: I apologize to the members who wanted to discuss the sound of this amp and how it compares (or not) w/ other portable amps. I wish we could continue but it does not seem possible. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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