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Help me understand: Why Braveheart and Gladiator, but not The Last of the Mohicans?

post #1 of 79
Thread Starter 
AMC just played The Last of the Mohicans again (interestingly with about half of the subtitles missing) and I'm again stumped why members here don't talk about it more. Especially as action-adventure oriented as we are. When film lists come up on Head-Fi, Braveheart and Gladiator are often mentioned. Yet all three are romanticized historical 'small' epics. All three star accomplished actors (Daniel Day-Lewis, Mel Gibson and Russell Crowe), all three have beautiful settings at historically important times, all three have very good soundtracks, all three are underdog stories of the individual against governments, at least two of the three directors made other films people like here - Michael Mann (Heat, Ali, The Insider); Ridley Scott (Hannibal, Black Hawk Down, Kingdom of Heaven); Mel Gibson (The Passion of the Christ, Apocalypto), all three hint at democracy in their famous quotes (see below), all three take place in a time of war and concern themselves with manliness and protection (personal and ideals), all three are violent, all three were released relatively recently and all three attempt to transcend (with various levels of success) the film action genre.

Quote:
The Last of the Mohicans (1992)
Duncan: And who empowered these colonials to pass judgement on England's policies, and to come and go without so much as a "by your leave"?
Cora Munro: They do not live their lives "by your leave"! They hack it out of the wilderness with their own two hands, bearing their children along the way!
Quote:
Braveheart (1995)
William Wallace: There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it.
Quote:
Gladiator (2000)
Commodus: The general who became a slave. The slave who became a gladiator. The gladiator who defied an emperor. Striking story! But now, the people want to know how the story ends. Only a famous death will do. And what could be more glorious than to challenge the Emperor himself in the great arena?
Maximus: You would fight me?
Commodus: Why not? Do you think I am afraid?
Maximus: I think you've been afraid all your life.

Yet, the one I think is dramatically superior (maybe because of the source) to the other two is the one no one talks about here. It is more romantic, more about independence, more beautiful, more about sacrifice, protection and bravery, and better storytelling. None of these are great cinema, but they are in the same ballpark of many of the film discussions here and I can't figure out what makes it in the Head-Fi action hero worship canon and what doesn't. I know I've hinted at this confusion before, but can anyone explain this to me? Why not Mohicans? Pretty Please?










post #2 of 79
i like it. solid flick. DDL is one of my favorite actors.
post #3 of 79
one of my favorite movies of all time. Great score, great screenplay and acting. Have read the book as well.
Probably one of the first true American work of literature.
post #4 of 79
It does deserve greater recognition. Really the complete package, with excellent writing, directing, music, and acting. Arguably a better, tighter movie than the other two, but as I'm sure everybody knows popularity doesn't necessarily equal quality and vice versa. Just enjoy it regardless of the injustice of it all!
post #5 of 79
its on a par as to why the thin red line never really gets hype when mentioning war films, great film!!!

but you normally hear platoon, saving private ryan, Apoc. now etc

not sure...

maybe it has more of a complex structure that doesnt appear to the everyone the way the guts and glory films do like gladiator and braveheart, also the epic struggle of one man agaisnt the odds.
post #6 of 79
I haven't seen it in years. I think I must watch it again. As I recall, it is a great flick!
post #7 of 79
One of my all time favorites!!
post #8 of 79
Great movie. Too political.
post #9 of 79
there are not enough swords...
post #10 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaddy View Post
its on a par as to why the thin red line never really gets hype when mentioning war films, great film!!!

but you normally hear platoon, saving private ryan, Apoc. now etc

not sure...

maybe it has more of a complex structure that doesnt appear to the everyone the way the guts and glory films do like gladiator and braveheart, also the epic struggle of one man agaisnt the odds.
I don't think I got through Thin Red Line, which will probably make me sound like an idiot but it's just the truth. I also haven't seen Last of the Mohicans in about 10 years, and it didn't make a huge impression on me at the time. Maybe I need to give both another shot.
post #11 of 79
Almost any film is better than Braveheart.
post #12 of 79
Love Last of the Mohican's. I think they cut out a bunch of scenes after the first release on tape. I've watched it a few times on TV and DVD and there are definitely things missing. One of the greatest soundtracks ever BTW, my favorite.
post #13 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1likesme View Post
there are not enough swords...
Heh, I'll add one liners and machismo.

Interesting, I wasn't aware there was a "Head-Fi action hero worship canon." Anyway, great heads up. Think I might boot LOTM tonight. It's a good'un.
post #14 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggeh View Post
Almost any film is better than Braveheart.
Freeeedommmm!!!!!!!
post #15 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaddy View Post
its on a par as to why the thin red line never really gets hype when mentioning war films, great film!!!

but you normally hear platoon, saving private ryan, Apoc. now etc

not sure...

maybe it has more of a complex structure that doesnt appear to the everyone the way the guts and glory films do like gladiator and braveheart, also the epic struggle of one man agaisnt the odds.
Agree with this. War films really gotta be a kind of brutal action, put you in the chaos type of thing. If you get too deep and philosophical (this red line), you kind of kill it.

Kind of like eating chocolate cake with fine wine. You need thick milk to wash it down if that makes any sense.
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › Help me understand: Why Braveheart and Gladiator, but not The Last of the Mohicans?