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Interesting Article on Cable Burn-In

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
very interesting. lots of quotes from experts in the field (nordost, cardas, tara labs, etc). here's some excerpts:

Quote:
directionality. On the subject of directionality, Jerry Ramsey of Audio Magic has an opinion which, taken in the context of what all these cable makers have been saying so far, sounds perfectly reasonable even though I had never thought of it that way. He claims -- and extensive listening tests with an experienced panel were used to verify this -- that cables become directional simply through use. He offers that verification of this phenomenon is easily duplicated by anyone interested. All that’s required are cables of truly symmetrical design where the shield construction is identical on both ends. Simply reverse the cables after they’ve been in the system for an extended period of time. Jerry suggests that the sonics will immediately and perceptibly suffer until the cable re-settles in the new direction. This requires another break-in period equal in length to the original one. This process of reversing a cable’s burned-in sonic directionality can be continued ad infinitum. The reason Audio Magic uses directional markers in their symmetrical designs is not to suggest that the cables are delivered directional. It’s simply to remind a customer about which end is which should he rewire his system by swapping components or re-siting his audio rack.
Quote:
cable termination. Back on track. Stephen Creamer of Nirvana Audio reminds us that the best termination is no termination -- point-to-point hard wiring or surface-mount technology is inherently superior to cables that connect components via terminals of some kind. Cable termination, whether by crimping pressure or soldering heat, applies brute force to the crystalline structure of the joined materials.
Quote:
full burn in may take years, if ever. To obtain the full benefit for which the cables were designed in the first place, break-in should be considered mandatory. Accessories might prove helpful to accelerate what could be a very protracted process. There’s also the distinct possibility that certain or all cables, under regular use -- plainly listening to music -- may never fully break-in to strut their stuff unhampered.

Would it surprise you that arguments for the latter would come from those who market cable burn-in accessories? But cynicism aside, even George Cardas who does not market his own cable burner was plain in stating that certain wires, based on geometries or materials, could take years to fully if ever equalize. Joe Reynolds of Nordost states that experiments with their own cables, using a virgin pair versus one in constant use for 1.5 years versus a virgin one after a 48 hours toasting treatment, clearly showed that even nonstop music-only signal will not arrive at the level of performance a properly designed burn-in device can deliver in a few days.
Quote:
reasons for burn in. Cable burn-in is real and audible. There are a number of reasons cited to explain the phenomenon. Every expert queried agrees though that the major contributing factor is the plastic, not the conductor. The insulating plastic interacts with the electromagnetic wave of passing signal current. This interaction minimizes over time to stabilize to a lesser level of magnitude than encountered in the virgin wire. Since simple current flow seems to be the agent whereby this process takes places, speaker cables, all else being equal, ought to burn-in faster than interconnects, simply by virtue of the higher signal currents that pass from amplifier to speaker. Whether artificial non-musical signals as generated by accessory burn-in devices can improve upon or accelerate conditioning results when compared to using plain music remains to be seen. ...

cables with simple designs burn in easier. It seems further certain that cables that eschew complexity and minimize bundling and layering reduce triboelectric problems, which occur with electrostatic interference between a cable’s physical entities. Triboelectrical noise does discharge with bending and handling, so a settling-down period of the cable after installation is to be expected. This probably is exacerbated in those designs that are mechanically intricate and filled with numerous layers of dissimilar materials.

system should never be turned off. It’s clearly recommended to leaving a system powered if not permanently playing to retain a micro current or potential in all cables. This seems to stabilize performance and prevent a partial or complete reversal to the pre-conditioning state, either scenario probably tied to both the cable and the amount of inactive downtime. ... Bill Lowe of AudioQuest states in no uncertain terms that prolonged non-use returns cables to near their virgin pre-conditioned state.
http://www.soundstage.com/yfiles/yfiles200005.htm
post #2 of 11
vcoheda, to be totally honest, what's the point of this? I mean, this isn't "scientific" proof that some of the "nay-sayers" demand. There words are just as good, and meaningless as mine (to some).

I believe in burn-in, not necessarily 1000 hour + burn-in times, but I will give it a chance with some pink-noise, (another controversial subject) to do it's "thing".

If I can hear an audible difference after a component is being burned-in, that's all that matters. I do however, refuse to listen to something "out-of-the-box" without allowing some sort of burn-in to occur, weather or not this is a placebo effect, or not, I am not arguing that.

Furthermore, I have a link to a DBT (which I refuse to post, in fear of being banned) of this exact "phenomenon" in which it contradicts everything quoted, and the DBT group (of about 10-15 people), in fact could NOT tell a difference in cables and various components being burnt in, however the components being burnt-in might not have been in the "thousands-of-hours", weather this ultimately had a direct effect on the outcome will be unknown. This is just a highly subjective/objective argument. I will leave it at that...

For those "on the fence" so to speak (or not sure what to think, and I don't blame you) all it takes is a little effort to try. If you don't try it, you won't know.





-Nick






-Nick
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
it's an interesting article. many people will want to read it. i don't care about the naysayers. i didn't post it for them.
post #4 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda View Post
it's an interesting article. many people will want to read it.

Hmm.. it is an interesting article nonetheless, which is why I "clicked" it. I would like to thank you for sharing it as well. I don't think I meant to directly question the point of this, which might have been the case. Maybe more of an expression than a question.. (hope that makes sense) I would like to apologize if this is how you understood it.





-Nick
post #5 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
oops, wrong thread (mine got closed down)

What the heck? This is the 18th time you've said this EXACT thing, all in different threads.. what gives?
post #6 of 11
I wouldn't exactly call the cable peddlers unbiased experts...

Nick, can you PM me that article? Thanks.
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverlordXenu View Post
I wouldn't exactly call the cable peddlers unbiased experts...

Nick, can you PM me that article? Thanks.
Agreed. And how is this any different than what anyone else has posted.

No measurements, no blind tests, no PROOF.
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
after reading this, i feel like i should leave my system running 24/7, but i'm not sure i want to run my G08 nonstop (that's a lot of spinning). maybe i will try it for a week and see how things sound.

what i really want to try is one of those cable burners.
post #9 of 11
Go to the home page of that publication...

http://www.soundstage.com/

...and look at the balance of editorial content to advertising. The ads *are* the content.

See ya
Steve
post #10 of 11

Experiments

Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda View Post
after reading this, i feel like i should leave my system running 24/7, but i'm not sure i want to run my G08 nonstop (that's a lot of spinning). maybe i will try it for a week and see how things sound.

what i really want to try is one of those cable burners.
The improvement from running the system 24/7 is bigger than an equipment upgrade. I have noticed the sound still changing after 1 month of warm-up, when I turn it off I need to start over.

For over a year I have experimented with the burn-in volume for headphones. When changing the volume it needs to be left running for half a day for it to sound different. Each 1dB step made a bigger difference than mp3 vs WAV.
My system used to sound way too warm so I needed to compensate for it by using a low burn-in volume to add edginess to the sound. But I found a way to add edginess to the sound using Valhalla interconnect instead, so now I have boosted up the burn-in volume to my default listening volume and it sounds better than ever. It is cleaner and more revealing. The bass is huge and fast with more low-level detail than ever before.




I use a towel on top of the headphones to keep the noise from leaking.
post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
The improvement from running the system 24/7 is bigger than an equipment upgrade. I have noticed the sound still changing after 1 month of warm-up, when I turn it off I need to start over.

For over a year I have experimented with the burn-in volume for headphones. When changing the volume it needs to be left running for half a day for it to sound different. Each 1dB step made a bigger difference than mp3 vs WAV.
My system used to sound way too warm so I needed to compensate for it by using a low burn-in volume to add edginess to the sound. But I found a way to add edginess to the sound using Valhalla interconnect instead, so now I have boosted up the burn-in volume to my default listening volume and it sounds better than ever. It is cleaner and more revealing. The bass is huge and fast with more low-level detail than ever before.
how do you do this with a spkr system?
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