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Tube-y tube amp owners-- Need a loaner Singlepower or Woo!

post #1 of 26
9/28/07 at 7:01pm
Thread Starter 
Howdy all,
I'm in the middle of evaluating a certain new-ish hi-end headphone for Positive Feedback that is screaming out for some tube amplification that I don't currently own. This headphone longs for a warm, full, thick and heavy, almost stereotypically "tube-y" tube amp.

I know it's asking a lot, but if you have a "spare" better quality SinglePower or Woo amp that you can loan for a few weeks, I would be eternally grateful. I'm in the USA and will pay shipping both ways. Depending on what I hear (i.e. if I like it), I can and will review the amp for either Head-Fi or Positive Feedback.

Please PM me if you can help. Cheers.
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post #2 of 26
9/28/07 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
Howdy all,
I'm in the middle of evaluating a certain new-ish hi-end headphone for Positive Feedback that is screaming out for some tube amplification that I don't currently own. This headphone longs for a warm, full, thick and heavy, almost stereotypically "tube-y" tube amp.

I know it's asking a lot, but if you have a "spare" better quality SinglePower or Woo amp that you can loan for a few weeks, I would be eternally grateful. I'm in the USA and will pay shipping both ways. Depending on what I hear (i.e. if I like it), I can and will review the amp for either Head-Fi or Positive Feedback.

Please PM me if you can help. Cheers.


If you want a warm, full, thick and heavy, almost stereotypically "tube-y" tube amp .... you dont want a Singlepower. The SP house sound is nothing like that.
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post #3 of 26
9/28/07 at 8:32pm
Thread Starter 
Earl, really? My impression is that Singlepower's modus operandi is to produce the ultimate tube amp, maximizing all that tubes do so well, putting the exact right tube in the exact right point in the circuit-- otherwise, why bother? Given their design (with tubes at their center/heart and most crucial points), I suspect this assumption is mostly true/valid. I bet any SinglePower amp (with tubes) will sound "tuby-er" than my pure solid-state Rudistor RP010.

The question (for you), I guess, is whether the listener feels this basic sound is colored or not in a traditionally tube-y way, and maybe you don't, and that's fine (I can't believe a tube-lover would find the sound "colored"; to him/her, it just sounds "right"). I also assume you are biased toward an amp with tubes in it, and that's why you like the amps you do (again, totally OK). I know the tube sound and have owned a number of tube amps. I know for a fact that this headphone will benefit from tube amplification. I've never heard any SinglePower amp ever, but I would be seriously disappointed (and quite surprised) if it sounded like a solid state amp without all the advantages of pure solid state.

I would still like to borrow a tube amp (including and especially Singlepower). If you've got one, please PM me. Cheers.
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post #4 of 26
9/28/07 at 9:36pm
It is the wrong assumption that a well designed tube amp will have the classic "tube" sound. That sound is often not true to the music at all, very colored and poor in bass response. A well designed tube amp will be concise, open, 3D and fairly true to the music without changing the recording "sound".
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post #5 of 26
9/28/07 at 9:51pm
Thread Starter 
jamato8,
You're missing the point. If you want to design an amp that is totally free of tube coloration, you will design an amp without tubes.

I already have such an amp. Now I'm looking for a tube-based amp.

No-one who thinks a tube-based amp is superior to any solid-state amp, sees it as "colored", or "tube-y". They just like it.

Sure, I get that, fine. But there is a purpose to using tubes or everything would be solid state. There is such thing as a "tube-sound". I've heard it many times over, there's no purpose in denying it exists.
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post #6 of 26
9/28/07 at 10:02pm
I believe tubes by their analog nature filter out odd harmonics- which can be a detriment to sound especially when using a digital source.


“They just like it.”

That pretty much sums it for me. Plus the esoteric joy of having something unconvential, archaic and beautiful. Tube amps to me are the ultimate in industrial art- function and beauty combined.





Mitch
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post #7 of 26
9/28/07 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
jamato8,
You're missing the point. If you want to design an amp that is totally free of tube coloration, you will design an amp without tubes.
I have a feeling this thread is about to go WAY of topic. I agree, the Singlepower amps are about as free from tube coloration as it gets. Similar to the BAT preamps, if you've ever heard them.

Tube rolling isn't about "choose your distortion" with Singlepower...

I'm almost tempted to loan you mine, and if I was finished with my electrostatic amp I definitely would... But alas, I'm about to have a second child in the house and need a sonic oasis to run to
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post #8 of 26
9/28/07 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
jamato8,
You're missing the point. If you want to design an amp that is totally free of tube coloration, you will design an amp without tubes.

I already have such an amp. Now I'm looking for a tube-based amp.

No-one who thinks a tube-based amp is superior to any solid-state amp, sees it as "colored", or "tube-y". They just like it.

Sure, I get that, fine. But there is a purpose to using tubes or everything would be solid state. There is such thing as a "tube-sound". I've heard it many times over, there's no purpose in denying it exists.

You can't get the "tube-sound" in a piece that does not use tubes (otherwise none of you would be using tube amps).

So, this debate is silly, I still need a tube amp...

You said stereotypically tubey. The SP amps have that something special offered by tubes in spades. I believe realism would be a good desrciption .... but nothing like the kind of colored tube sound you refer to. An Ear Max Pro is an example of a colored tube sound IMO. The SP amps do not have that type of sound. If you are expecting a tube-y amp that will correct the headphones flaws you perceive you will likely find the SP amp will not correct the problems .... only spotlight the problems even more.

As a second point .... I think tube amps are superior because they sound more like the live music I use as my referance. I like some SS amps, usually pure class A Mosfet designs. But, there is less coloration with my tube amps not more. You have fallen for the on-going myth tubes color the sound while SS is neutral. In my experience, SS is not as resolving as tubes and even more colored .... only in a different direction.
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post #9 of 26
9/28/07 at 10:34pm
Thread Starter 
Just to be clear, , I am in no way a "tube-hater". No, no way. I do not believe the tube sound is "wrong" or "colored" or "false" or whatever. I love love love the tube sound.

What I don't love is the tube baggage (is it really authentic, unused, etc.). I've owned more tube amps than most people on this site. I know what tubes can do and what they can't do.
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post #10 of 26
9/28/07 at 10:35pm
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post #11 of 26
9/28/07 at 10:46pm
Thread Starter 
Howdy Earl,
FWIW, I admire you, and I feel I "know" you from years and years gone by (as much as you can on a site like this). I know you to be a legitimate and passionate audiophile (I like that). I know you have experience with many headphone amps of all stripes. I know you hold SinglePower amps in especially high regard.

The way things have worked out so far, I have not been privy to the evolution of Singlepower amps. I've never had the chance to hear any Singlepower amp. This doesn't mean I have something against them; I don't.

I may love them more than any other amp I've heard, or I may not.
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post #12 of 26
9/28/07 at 10:51pm
would an earmax pro classify as the tube sound you're looking for? just so that you may point people in the "right" direction
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post #13 of 26
9/28/07 at 10:58pm
Thread Starter 
Howdy, the Earmax Pro is about as "tubey" sounding an amp as exists. But it's also as feeble, flea-weight, and "puny" sounding an amp as you will ever find. It's almost pathetically wimpy.
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post #14 of 26
9/28/07 at 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
Howdy Earl,
FWIW, I admire you, and I feel I "know" you from years and years gone by (as much as you can on a site like this). I know you to be a legitimate and passionate audiophile (I like that). I know you have experience with many headphone amps of all stripes. I know you hold SinglePower amps in especially high regard.

The way things have worked out so far, I have not been privy to the evolution of Singlepower amps. I've never had the chance to hear any Singlepower amp. This doesn't mean I have something against them; I don't. Having never heard one, I have nothing for or against them.

I may love them more than any other amp I've heard, or I may not.

What's missing is a review sample. Yes, I may be better off asking for a direct sample from SinglePower (and I may yet ask for just that), but my guess is I'm more likely to get a loaner from a Head-Fier, as I have in the past.
I know you dont have anything against the SP amps. I also know the SP sound is not going to be the characteristic sound you expect. That is why I commented. If the headphone you are reviewing needs a stereotypic tube sound you are wasting your time with a SP. Something like an Ear Max Pro, Space Tech Lab 6AS7G .... or one of the Cary or Moth transformer coupled 300B types is more what you seem to be looking for.
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post #15 of 26
9/28/07 at 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
I've never had the chance to hear any Singlepower amp. Having never heard one
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacd lover View Post
I also know the SP sound is not going to be the characteristic sound you expect.
seems like we've about wrapped this one up. Listen to the sage wisdom of Earl
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