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Patrick's case: you guys mostly aren't acceptable!

post #1 of 583
Thread Starter 
Though his actions are a bit outrage for being so dedicated to Valhalla...(or whatever its called). However, his rigs aren't that stupid to use those cables. He has cary 306, the good mid-end CD Player (or used to have), k1000 (so called one of great earspeaker), dac1 (so called famous dac unit under 1000) and Vahalla...lol.

But what I see from you guys is he's crazy to spend 3k or more for cables, he's insane, blablabla... Gosh, I would hate to say it but these comments proved that most members in Head-fi are newbie against hi-fi rig. In home system, it's common stuff to use 3k or even 10k cables. They value everything equal, mostly 1:1 or 1:2 for cables: other thing.

It's too damn unfair for patrick seeing these actions. Why? You have no problem if someone buy 6k headphones or amps but buying 3k for cables is "Oh my god! Are you crazy!?!"...What a joke. Go back to audiophile school and study again how important cables are for getting to hi-fi step.

As for you, patrick, don't get so cocky with your valhalla. It's just good but not so great like godly ultimate stuff. Valhalla sucks for power cord and everyone who plays hi-fi system knows that. You should give it a try for Virtual Dynamics (Relevations or even Genesis) and Purist Audio Design (Anniversary) once for better and your CD Player needs to be updated. How about getting Esoteric X01 or X03 if you can afford? I'm sure it will beat your Cary 306 in every aspect (Cary is good for tube amp but not for CD Player)
post #2 of 583
i don't have enough income to experiment with high-end cables, but i don't doubt their effectiveness. browse through the audio setups on audiogon or other websites. the vast majority of them make even the most accomplished head-fi rig look like child's play. every one of those setups use very expensive cables. are they all just following the herd. or is it merely a certain symmetry at work. component a, b, c, and d all cost x, so e (the cable) must cost that as well. maybe. but i tend to think that these cables probably do sound better than most and make a difference. if i had the income, i would experiment with and explore better cables, but i don't and for now what i have sounds pretty good.
post #3 of 583
Before this thread goes to hell and then gets locked, which is usually the direction that these go, you have to look at some of his claims. Yes the Valhalla is his main focus, but he tried brilliant pebbles, has some ridiculous mass dampening solutions, and many other bizarre "tweaks" that simply don't have much effect as far as common sense goes, I can't say they don't work since I haven't heard his rig, but I have my doubts. I don't think it is his devotion to the cables, but his tweaking and the other stuff he posts that makes people question him. That and the fact that he tears apart these expensive cables. That said I don't criticize him, I can think of better things to spend all that money on, but if that is what he wants to do and he thinks it works, then more power to him.

Now with that out of the way, the Patrick haters and cable scientists who will give you a lot of numbers about conduction and such will come through to explain why they criticize him. But these threads never end well.
post #4 of 583
Thread Starter 
"Patrick, I don't have enough faith to believe in your propose." That's OK. No problem if you don't believe.

"Patrick, you are insane, crazy, blablabla" That's unacceptable to say things like this.

This isn't problem about believer or non-believer but respect or no respect.
post #5 of 583
If you choose to put out 10k for "playing hifi system" (!), so be it. I guess, you and most of the other 10k guys get an aequivalent pay check every month.

But tell me: Could you imagine spending "your life savings" on some stupid cables and slice them up? Ever took a look at his appartement?
This guy is ruining himself, and it's a shame this forum funktions as a platform for his obviously sickly self-portrayal and guys like you encourage him. This is irresponsible.

If i was a mod here, i'd delete this thread right now, as it's the reason why he's acting like he does imho.
post #6 of 583
Quote:
In home system, it's common stuff to use 3k or even 10k cables.
Common for who? Most people do not spend more than $100 on cables, let alone $1000. You, Patrick and a few others are the exceptions. It is your money and you are welcome to spend it as you please, but I would hardly say $3000 worth of cables is common, even amongst people here at Head-Fi.

I also know very few people here who have spent as much money on ERS paper as Patrick has.
post #7 of 583
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
"Patrick, I don't have enough faith to believe in your propose." That's OK. No problem if you don't believe.

"Patrick, you are insane, crazy, blablabla" That's unacceptable to say things like this.

This isn't problem about believer or non-believer but respect or no respect.
READ

P.S. Treating Patrick or some exceptions as stupid for spending 1k for cables is the same for non head-fier who treats you guys as stupid to spend a lot of money just for listening to music. You guys sure has reasons for those non head-fier as patrick has his reasons to you guys as well. And do you guys can accept that those non head-fiers call you "stupid" just to waste over hundreds or thousands for listening to music?
post #8 of 583
I work in a nuclear physics lab, operating and experimenting with a particle accelerator. Our detectors transmit analog signals, which are preamplified at the detectors and then the signal is carried to our acquisition computers.

An good quality Si(Li) X-ray detector costs in the range of ~20k. What cables do we use to carry these signals? Shielded BNC's that cost less than $50 / 12'. I have personally tested these cables with bench meters, oscilloscopes, etc. We even have some more expensive cabling around - which tests no different.

I do believe that RatShack cables can be improved upon, but the absolute top end for cabling for me will be BJC. Studios use these; the music you are listening to may well have been mixed using BJC interconnects. They have the $$ to afford more, so why don't they?

I think this entire thing is psychological once you reach the equivalent of BJC.
post #9 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
Though his actions are a bit outrage for being so dedicated to Valhalla...(or whatever its called). However, his rigs aren't that stupid to use those cables. He has cary 306, the good mid-end CD Player (or used to have), k1000 (so called one of great earspeaker), dac1 (so called famous dac unit under 1000) and Vahalla...lol.

But what I see from you guys is he's crazy to spend 3k or more for cables, he's insane, blablabla... Gosh, I would hate to say it but these comments proved that most members in Head-fi are newbie against hi-fi rig. In home system, it's common stuff to use 3k or even 10k cables. They value everything equal, mostly 1:1 or 1:2 for cables: other thing.

It's too damn unfair for patrick seeing these actions. Why? You have no problem if someone buy 6k headphones or amps but buying 3k for cables is "Oh my god! Are you crazy!?!"...What a joke. Go back to audiophile school and study again how important cables are for getting to hi-fi step.

As for you, patrick, don't get so cocky with your valhalla. It's just good but not so great like godly ultimate stuff. Valhalla sucks for power cord and everyone who plays hi-fi system knows that. You should give it a try for Virtual Dynamics (Relevations or even Genesis) and Purist Audio Design (Anniversary) once for better and your CD Player needs to be updated. How about getting Esoteric X01 or X03 if you can afford? I'm sure it will beat your Cary 306 in every aspect (Cary is good for tube amp but not for CD Player)
Hi,

of course you are entitled to your own opinion and patrick to his.

He tried probably more then you ever will, so for him this cable is the best in his sytem. For you, it's another cable.

Remind that Nordost cables, especially in the reference series of cables are very revealing and NOT for everybody. If the rig is right and in balance(read: of high quality) then these cables will shine and grow to the sky with your rig. They are NOT the link that is holding the rig back, instead reveal everything your rig does downstream. Not everybody's cup of tea.

There are more really good cables, in the end, it's just a preference and how they perform in your rig.

Up till now, my Nordost IC is the best i've had and heard so far!
I have no intention to replace it.

I read another brand 9000 dollar IC is just as good and neutral, costing 3 times more, go figure.

But hey, you know they have a new 18.000 dollar cable, so this might be better then anything else thus far.

Remember Nik, also a very respected member on headfi that also tried everything possible, even commissioned custom amps for his headphone rig costing way over 10.000 dollars just for the amp and his linn sondek 12 cdplayer, wich is still in a league of it's own!

Guess what, after those expensive adventures, he settled down with the hd650/k1000, a midprice amp(still a couple of thousand dollars) and the linn sondek (15.000 dollars). To his ears, this set up sound most lifelike. Remember that he is a musician as well! And has experience in recording studio's, so he should know something about sound!

If you mod a fairly priced component, it can get you there for a very decent price And you'll be up to the big boys!

Buying expensive stuff, doesn't guarantee the best overall sound at all, carefully matching, as it seems, is even more important.
post #10 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTrumpet999 View Post
I work in a nuclear physics lab, operating and experimenting with a particle accelerator. Our detectors transmit analog signals, which are preamplified at the detectors and then the signal is carried to our acquisition computers.

An good quality Si(Li) X-ray detector costs in the range of ~20k. What cables do we use to carry these signals? Shielded BNC's that cost less than $50 / 12'. I have personally tested these cables with bench meters, oscilloscopes, etc. We even have some more expensive cabling around - which tests no different.

I do believe that RatShack cables can be improved upon, but the absolute top end for cabling for me will be BJC. Studios use these; the music you are listening to may well have been mixed using BJC interconnects. They have the $$ to afford more, so why don't they?

I think this entire thing is psychological once you reach the equivalent of BJC.
Great story, only the problem is that the 20.000 dollar device isn't made for musical reproduction! Any decent 50 dollar cable will let that device do it's job where it was intended for, simple as that. But it will NOT make a good amp shine.
post #11 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
Though his actions are a bit outrage for being so dedicated to Valhalla...(or whatever its called). However, his rigs aren't that stupid to use those cables. He has cary 306, the good mid-end CD Player (or used to have), k1000 (so called one of great earspeaker), dac1 (so called famous dac unit under 1000) and Vahalla...lol.

But what I see from you guys is he's crazy to spend 3k or more for cables, he's insane, blablabla... Gosh, I would hate to say it but these comments proved that most members in Head-fi are newbie against hi-fi rig. In home system, it's common stuff to use 3k or even 10k cables. They value everything equal, mostly 1:1 or 1:2 for cables: other thing.

It's too damn unfair for patrick seeing these actions. Why? You have no problem if someone buy 6k headphones or amps but buying 3k for cables is "Oh my god! Are you crazy!?!"...What a joke. Go back to audiophile school and study again how important cables are for getting to hi-fi step.

As for you, patrick, don't get so cocky with your valhalla. It's just good but not so great like godly ultimate stuff. Valhalla sucks for power cord and everyone who plays hi-fi system knows that. You should give it a try for Virtual Dynamics (Relevations or even Genesis) and Purist Audio Design (Anniversary) once for better and your CD Player needs to be updated. How about getting Esoteric X01 or X03 if you can afford? I'm sure it will beat your Cary 306 in every aspect (Cary is good for tube amp but not for CD Player)
Now we have a dedicated school for this?!?

And seriously, given the relative cost of material for cables vs. source/amp/transducer, I personally find it crazy and unacceptable to justify putting cables on the same cost level as the other components. Having heard $200+ cables and quantifying the difference they made, I never found the difference in sound (not necessarily an improvement) worth the price. I do not believe $10K+ cables will be any better in terms of value.

Regards.
post #12 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by meat01 View Post
Common for who? Most people do not spend more than $100 on cables, let alone $1000. You, Patrick and a few others are the exceptions. It is your money and you are welcome to spend it as you please, but I would hardly say $3000 worth of cables is common, even amongst people here at Head-Fi.

I also know very few people here who have spent as much money on ERS paper as Patrick has.
Yes, there are exensive setups sold now and then, only they won't talk about it on headfi. Remember that most good speakers setups easally surpass a good headphone rig in price!
post #13 of 583
Thread Starter 
So you guys have no idea what this topic is for after all. read my earlier posts again and stop treating guys who are cables believer are idiot, bs, or whatever like before.

As for power cord cables, there's a big difference between normal cables and high-end cables. Being unable to distinguish between normal cables and stock cables doesn't mean you can apply the same rule to high-end cables.
post #14 of 583
Quote:
But it will NOT make a good amp shine.
Nor will a $3000 cable, which is just transferring the signal it is given good or bad. You can't polish a turd!
post #15 of 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
"Patrick, I don't have enough faith to believe in your propose." That's OK. No problem if you don't believe.

"Patrick, you are insane, crazy, blablabla" That's unacceptable to say things like this.

This isn't problem about believer or non-believer but respect or no respect.
I agree; it's his hobby, his money and his opinion, like anybody else's opinion!

Nobody would attack anybody for buying an expensive exotic car costing 500.000 dollars, but if somebody is buying any decent cabling, he is called any name possible! This still seems not accepted!

Alot of you people out there could learn something from him; alot of things concur with what i found out after extensive experimenting and listening to Cables, IC's etc.

Instead of reading sites and blab as they do, try and experiment for yourself and you'll know! A piece of wire doesn't have to cost much, so these experiments wouldn't cost you an arm and a legg, but will give you some insites.
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