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Constantine USB DAC Rant - Page 4

post #46 of 64
5/19/08 at 12:29am
Thread Starter 
* I'm going to reactivate this thread for an UPDATE *

Look how the worm turns.....

I now find my self using the Constantine USB with a laptop...

First, I updated ASIO4ALL to see if the newest version worked any better with USB (since that is what mhdt recommends and low and behold, ASIO4ALL v2.8 works perfectly with the Constantine's USB connection. That's the good news.

The bad news is that from what I remember, the optical connection sounds much better than USB and I have no way to use it from my laptop....

So, I'm looking for a high end widget to go from USB to optical or coaxial.....

I know about these:

Behringer UCA202
Edirol UA-1EX ASIO
M-Audio Transit
Turtle Beach Advantage

but I don't know which one is going to give me the best sound.... or even if a widget will give me a better sound than what is already built into the Constantine USB.....

USG

d-_-b
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post #47 of 64
5/19/08 at 9:38pm
So now you are going from the laptop to the constantine and then an amp/headphone. Why add something else to the chain? In my simple mind the less items on the chain the better off you could be. Of course I could be wrong!
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post #48 of 64
5/20/08 at 2:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarroyo View Post
So now you are going from the laptop to the constantine and then an amp/headphone. Why add something else to the chain? In my simple mind the less items on the chain the better off you could be. Of course I could be wrong!
Hey Miguel what's happening in Fla?

When I had the Constantine hooked up to my main computer, I had both the optical and the USB plugged in and I was able to compare the Constantine's optical implementation with its USB implementation. The optical sounded much better so I only used optical, but now that I'm using USB, I was wondering if I converted the USB to optical I would be able to get the fuller, bassier, optical sound again.

Or do you think that the built in USB will sound the same as optical that has been converted from USB?

Regards

Eric

d-_-b
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post #49 of 64
5/20/08 at 10:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
Hey Miguel what's happening in Fla?

When I had the Constantine hooked up to my main computer, I had both the optical and the USB plugged in and I was able to compare the Constantine's optical implementation with its USB implementation. The optical sounded much better so I only used optical, but now that I'm using USB, I was wondering if I converted the USB to optical I would be able to get the fuller, bassier, optical sound again.

Or do you think that the built in USB will sound the same as optical that has been converted from USB?

Regards

Eric

d-_-b

Eric, good question which may cost a few bucks to get an answer to. For example, there are a few systems to convert from USB to optical (Hag, Trends UD10, etc). Of course they will also add their distortion and "flavor" to the sound.

Is it possible for you to get a soundcard w/ optical out so no conversion is needed?
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post #50 of 64
5/21/08 at 12:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarroyo View Post
Eric, good question which may cost a few bucks to get an answer to. For example, there are a few systems to convert from USB to optical (Hag, Trends UD10, etc). Of course they will also add their distortion and "flavor" to the sound.

Is it possible for you to get a soundcard w/ optical out so no conversion is needed?
What would you recommend M ?

E

d-_-b
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post #51 of 64
5/21/08 at 2:19am
The AV-710 was always recommended, but is no longer available readily at the incredible price.
I use the M-Audio 2496. Some other options are the ESI Juli@, and on the higher end you have the Lynx offerings. Just as CD transports are said to differ in quality, PCI ones are said to do that as well. I'd go with a coaxial instead of optical spdif out, just for the sturdiness, but that's just my personal not-very-enlightened opinion.

Edit: Do not get the Revolution 5.1 for digital out. Drivers are terrible.
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post #52 of 64
5/21/08 at 3:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fungi View Post

The AV-710 was always recommended, but is no longer available readily at the incredible price.
I use the M-Audio 2496. Some other options are the ESI Juli@, and on the higher end you have the Lynx offerings. Just as CD transports are said to differ in quality, PCI ones are said to do that as well. I'd go with a coaxial instead of optical spdif out, just for the sturdiness, but that's just my personal not-very-enlightened opinion.

Edit: Do not get the Revolution 5.1 for digital out. Drivers are terrible.
Hi Fungi

This is the set up I'm using in another room...



The problem is that the Constantine sounded much better when I had it connected optically and not nearly as robust from the USB...



same rig, without the Woo3, at one of the NY meets, using the optical out of the Shuttle...



But a Stello DA100 replaced the Constantine,



so I took the Constantine and the M^3 and set it up with the laptop in the upper picture in another room. Now I'm stuck with the Constantine's USB implementation unless I can find another way to convert the USB to optical or coaxial, but I am also concerned, that as mrarroyo said, any converters I use "will also add their distortion and "flavor" to the sound."

What do you think?

USG

d-_-b
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post #53 of 64
5/21/08 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
Now I'm stuck with the Constantine's USB implementation unless I can find another way to convert the USB to optical or coaxial, but I am also concerned, that as mrarroyo said, any converters I use "will also add their distortion and "flavor" to the sound."
It's still a digital stream, there is no "flavor".
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post #54 of 64
5/21/08 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post

It's still a digital stream, there is no "flavor".

That's what I would have thought, but if that's true, there should be no difference in sound between the Transit, Edirol, and the much less expensive Turtle Beach Advantage and Behringer when their respective digital streams are used....

and then taking it one step further, if a digital stream is a digital stream, why should any of them sound better than the built in USB in the Constantine?


USG

d-_-b
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post #55 of 64
5/21/08 at 4:21pm
The TBAAM isn't bit perfect IIRC.
I think after bit perfect, the other issues are jitter and clock rate. I don't know much about them and they are controversial, but just a thought.
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post #56 of 64
5/21/08 at 11:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fungi View Post
The TBAAM isn't bit perfect IIRC.
I think after bit perfect, the other issues are jitter and clock rate. I don't know much about them and they are controversial, but just a thought.
Do you know if the Behringer Contrastique has is bit perfect?

USG

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post #57 of 64
5/22/08 at 1:06pm

USB converter for MHDT Lab USB DACs

FWIW, I use a UD-10 for hooking my Paradisea+ to my laptop via coax output...

To me, a big improvement over native USB...it has optical, coaxial and BNC output.The transport from audiomagus.com sounds very similar and is $115 + shipping from Seattle area (less than UD 10 ($139.95?). Also adds AES output...YMMV

Audiomagus - high end not high priced

t
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post #58 of 64
5/22/08 at 3:00pm

What I Think...

Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post
Hi Fungi

This is the set up I'm using in another room...

What do you think?
Well... I think... you've got some pretty great head amps... and... you really don't need that GS-1.

Why don't you let me have it?
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post #59 of 64
5/22/08 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT View Post
It's still a digital stream, there is no "flavor".
Any electronic device, no matter how well is made or how expensive will introduce its own distortion. Even if the distortion is 0.0001% it adds to the already present distortion and if you use the root mean square to calculate the cumulative distortion the individual little numbers start turning into larger numbers. So yes there is "flavor" added.

USG, I went and read a little on your DAC. It appears to be a 16bits NOS DAC, that being the case how much better would an USB to Converter to Optical to DAC versus USB to DAC be? I remember reading that now USB2 will transmit up to 96khz if it is so what would an additional "box" improve?
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post #60 of 64
5/22/08 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarroyo View Post
Any electronic device, no matter how well is made or how expensive will introduce its own distortion. Even if the distortion is 0.0001% it adds to the already present distortion and if you use the root mean square to calculate the cumulative distortion the individual little numbers start turning into larger numbers. So yes there is "flavor" added.
Now I am confused, did you mean distortion or flavor.
Your original post says
Quote:
Of course they will also add their distortion and "flavor" to the sound.
BTW, what distortion gets translated to in reference to bit-by-bit data stream? Are we talking about jitter here, does it actually flavor the sound? Digital receiver still receives same bits, the timing may be off but still the same exact data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarroyo View Post
USG, I went and read a little on your DAC. It appears to be a 16bits NOS DAC, that being the case how much better would an USB to Converter to Optical to DAC versus USB to DAC be? I remember reading that now USB2 will transmit up to 96khz if it is so what would an additional "box" improve?
USB receiver and USB/SPDIF implementation can make a world of a difference even for 16/48.
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