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Truth about Nordost Valhalla power cord - Page 5  

post #61 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
There's only an amp and DAC on that picture. I use Cary CD transport or computer to change the album.


The heavier/thicker sound has more low-level detail and dynamics. It is better in every way.


When I first tried books I was using P300 Power Plant which gave muddier sound, and I needed to compensate for it by adding edginess to the sound. I wasn't able to put all the books on until I removed the P300 Power Plant. It sounded like more books was more neutral but it was too dark so I couldn't use it. Without the books there was more midrange emphasis and more surface brightness which gives the illusion of surface detail, but there wasn't any low-level detail.


This is what I said 4 months ago:

Mass damping with books sounds more neutral to me now, it is better in every way. It's not like the fake dynamics from fat Valhalla power cord. Books add true low-level detail while the Valhalla removes low-level detail.

The same is true with EMI shielding and power conditioning. If the system already sounds warm, then fixing EMI, AC noise and vibration problems will make it sound too warm and muddy. For a long time I didn't like PS Audio Noise Harvester, it wasn't in the signal path so it didn't worsen the sound at all, it just removed noise from the apartment wiring. It made the detail less apparent. When I removed the Harvester it sounded edgier and faster, I liked that more. But now it is obvious to me that less noise in the apartment wiring makes the components work more like they should. It sounds worse but it's more neutral.

The reason high-end gear sound better when plugged into the wall is because the AC noise compensates for the muddiness of the high-end gear.

Benchmark DAC1 sounds bright when plugged into the wall because that's how it should sound. When you fix the EMI, AC noise and vibration problems you hear neutral sound with more low-level detail than from high-end gear. Fixing noise problems with high-end gear doesn't make the component work worse, it makes it work like it should. But the end result doesn't sound as good because there isn't any edginess to compensate for the extra warmth.

Vibration and EMI are those I would fix first because they don't add weaknesses to the sound. Power conditioning adds weaknesses and you would need to compensate for it by adding EMI or vibration to the sound which results in less low-level detail.

The only power conditioner that gave brighter and faster sound than the wall was Premier Power Plant. It also gave dynamics and low-level detail.

I use a DAC and amp that are made for professional use, Benchmark DAC1 and ICEpower. The measured performance is what I care about. High-end gear are warmer than neutral because they are made for music listening. They are made to be plugged into the wall. But the overall performance is worse when using tweaks that fix the problems.


Yes. I use as many books as I can. If the Magix were stronger I would be using a lot more books. I spend a long time fine tuning the weight and position of the Magix.
So, in this case, the 35 euro quadraspire feet could just be as good as your levitation feet in the current state?! I mean, with all that extra weight, surely the levitation doesn't work anymore and you have just very expensive NORMAL feet.
post #62 of 177
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
So, in this case, the 35 euro quadraspire feet could just be as good as your levitation feet in the current state?! I mean, with all that extra weight, surely the levitation doesn't work anymore and you have just very expensive NORMAL feet.
No, the levitation still works. I have fine tuned the weight so that it isn't touching. Each Magix can handle 12 lbs of weight.

Even if the component would be touching the outer casing of the feet it will still improve the sound because 48lbs of weight is removed. If you have two objects touching each other you get a bigger transfer of vibrations the tighter they are pressed against each other, if they aren't tight then some of the vibrations are lost to heat from friction. If you touch a vibrating object with your finger you feel the heat on your fingertip. But if you press it tightly you feel the vibrations in your whole body.

When I used a single Magix for my computer PSU, some of the ground vibrations entered the PSU because you can't balance the component with a single Magix. But the improvement in sound was still huge compared to the floor. 1 Magix sounded better than 3 Feet of Silence and it was cheaper too.

When adding more Magix you get better sound. The difference between 3 and 4 Magix was big, but I didn't hear a difference between 4 and 8 Magix. I think the books have a greater effect for 3 Magix than for 4 Magix.
post #63 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
No, the levitation still works. I have fine tuned the weight so that it isn't touching. Each Magix can handle 12 lbs of weight.

Even if the component would be touching the outer casing of the feet it will still improve the sound because 48lbs of weight is removed. If you have two objects touching each other you get a bigger transfer of vibrations the tighter they are pressed against each other, if they aren't tight then some of the vibrations are lost to heat from friction. If you touch a vibrating object with your finger you feel the heat on your fingertip. But if you press it tightly you feel the vibrations in your whole body.

When I used a single Magix for my computer PSU, some of the ground vibrations entered the PSU because you can't balance the component with a single Magix. But the improvement in sound was still huge compared to the floor. 1 Magix sounded better than 3 Feet of Silence and it was cheaper too.

When adding more Magix you get better sound. The difference between 3 and 4 Magix was big, but I didn't hear a difference between 4 and 8 Magix. I think the books have a greater effect for 3 Magix than for 4 Magix.
'

Allright then, i was worried the levitation feet touched the outer casing. But if it does, it won't be as effective as it could be floating.

1LBS is about 450 grams, 12 lbs is about 5,5kg, that ain't much. Some players alone weigh 15-20 kg without the weight of all the books. For 4 feet, you can have a max. weight of 21 kg!

Point is, if the levitation feet touch the outer casing, you can just as well use the 35 quit feet. They do the same thing as your expensive feet do, if the levitation is not intact anymore!
post #64 of 177
Thread Starter 

Transport comparison, low vs high jitter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Wow. I'm surprised of the huge difference between both my transports now. Cary used to always sound louder than my computer. But now my computer sounds louder than Cary because the fat Valhalla adds fake heaviness to the sound. If the sound is fuller it also sounds louder.

I like to listen more to my computer than to the tweaked Cary. Just because the computer is edgier and heavier with a blacker background.

My Cary transport + tweaks are $13 000+ and my computer only has the fat Valhalla for $3000. Valhalla power cord + computer gives $10 000 in savings.

Fat Valhalla doesn't work without a crappy transport, using fat Valhalla with Cary just makes it too heavy and warm. But with edgy computer it works good, the more jitter the better! Computer + fat Valhalla is a great combination, it gives the whitest, blackest and heaviest sound. The lack of low-level detail compared to Cary still doesn't bother me.

If I would build a system from scratch I would buy Valhalla power cord for the crappiest computer I can find. Then I would cut the Valhalla in half and use each cable for the live and neutral signals.
I am making a direct comparison now.

Computer sounds heavier and whiter than Cary, it sounds bigger and more aggressive. It also sounds cleaner because of less low-level detail. The background of computer is dead black.

Cary is thinner and more laid-back, the bass isn't in the front anymore, nothing is emphasized. There isn't any whiteness because the whiteness is replaced with tiny transients, this is why Cary sounds more grey and dry, but it is more neutral because there is more low-level detail.

Computer has edginess and harshness, but with fat Valhalla power cord that edginess is smoothened out which fills up the low-level details with whiteness. Normally that low-level detail has lower intensities of whiteness which makes the music sound greyer. But Valhalla fills up that greyness with whiteness. The end result is more whiteness than what is on the recording.

Since Valhalla also adds fake heaviness. You get both heavier and whiter sound than what the recording has. When you reduce the jitter with tweaks or a better transport, it will not get any better, it will just get worse, because you need jitter/edginess so that Valhalla can smooth it out to add whiteness to the sound.

Heaviness + whiteness gives the illusion of a blacker background and more dynamics. The heaviness from Valhalla sounds slow and muddy but the edginess from AC noise makes it sound faster. The muddiness is replaced with whiteness. All the low-level details blend together but they are white and transparent which makes it sound like real life. There is less information from the recording but it still sounds better.

So a transport with low jitter has more low-level detail, greyness and lifelessness. And a jittery computer with fat Valhalla has more whiteness, blackness, heaviness and realism. Computer sounds more like real life just because it has MORE jitter.

AC noise + Valhalla power cord makes the recording sound more transparent than it really is. Without that AC noise the Valhalla just veils the sound, because it tries to smooth out greyness instead of whiteness. The noise must be there! As you can see, Valhalla is made for cheap gear. Valhalla power cord needs to cost more than the component it is plugged into. It's not made for high-end gear, it's the opposite! The lower the jitter is the worse the Valhalla is. But the higher the jitter is, the bigger the effect from Valhalla is. In my system the computer has benefited the most from Valhalla power cord. My Cary transport costs the most in my system and it benefited the least. The more jitter the better! Valhalla power cord + jitter are made for each other!
post #65 of 177
this whole thread is really one great big brag isnt it
post #66 of 177
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc303 View Post
this whole thread is really one great big brag isnt it
This thread is about getting better sound for as little money as possible. $300 computer sounds better than $10 000 transport + tweaks...after adding a $3000 power cord that veils the sound. When you veil the jittery sound from computer you get more transparency than any other combo. Jitter is what does it, it's the reason some high-end gear sound "aggressive". There are many combinations of flavors that high-end gear have, and that's what people spend their money on. But it is cheaper to tweak it yourself.
post #67 of 177
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
I post in many forums because I don't want the knowledge to get lost when someone decides to delete it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
If skeptic would become a moderator in a forum he would delete all the cable threads because he thinks cables don't make a difference. Then for many hundreds of years the audiophiles will be using stock cables in their systems and they don't know what they are missing.
AVSforum was the first forum I posted my discovery thread in, and it was deleted for no reason. They don't like to hear that Valhalla makes the power supply operate worse. They think they are buying "neutral" cables but they are buying worse cables than stock. The worse sound they are hearing sounds better because it worsens the sound in a way they like, but they can't admit it because they have big egos. They think they get better sound the more it costs.

For me the price doesn't matter. I can try any combinations and which ever sounds the best is what I keep. This time I get better sound from $300 computer than $10 000 transport and the more expensive transport is collecting dust. The people at AVS forum try to justify their purchases and never even try cheaper gear because they are biased and think you get worse sound with cheaper gear.
post #68 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc303 View Post
this whole thread is really one great big brag isnt it
I thought it's a prank performed by some bored psychology students.
post #69 of 177
Quote:
This thread is about getting better sound for as little money as possible.
No it isnt. This thread is so you can mention that you have a valhalla cable , tell people how much it cost over and over again and them mention some more of your hifi system.

Quote:
$300 computer sounds better than $10 000 transport + tweaks...after adding a $3000 power cord that veils the sound.
Maybe your "tweaks" have destroyed your $10,000 transport and you just havent realised yet or your $10,000 transport just wasnt worth $10,000

Also you would be better off playing with multiple power suplies to clean up the sound from your pc. IE , seperate quality suplies for the motherboard/cpu , graphics card, disk drives. Throwing a $3000 cable into a $100 pc power supply is a bit daft really as pc power supplies arent that good quality (especially as a good pc power supply costs more than your whole pc)

Quote:
When you veil the jittery sound from computer you get more transparency than any other combo. Jitter is what does it, it's the reason some high-end gear sound "aggressive". There are many combinations of flavors that high-end gear have, and that's what people spend their money on. But it is cheaper to tweak it yourself.
You do not hear jitter , you hear the cdp/dacs error correction circuits compensating for an incorrect bitstream. It is only when the data is so currupt that the error correction circuits cant cope that you will actually hear a harshness. This to me shows that you have a problem with your digital cable or your dac is damaged.

lastly - why are you replying to your own quotes ?
post #70 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by majkel View Post
Bla, bla, bla. Another guy created ground loop and confirmed it works. This is how "tweakers" make fools of people:
- ground your amp (correct)
- ground your source (incorrect, but now the Holy Cables start working)
- ground anything that needs another power cord tu buy...
- buy "directional" interconnects (now all signal ground goes thru the wall, that's it!)

If there is more than one component grounded, the returning signal current divides itself between interconnect ground channel and mains grounding. That's all making power cords play. So, at the beginning you do something stupid by allowing the signal going thru the wall, then buy a better power cord to partially fix the problem (now music goes thru a better conductor). I've recently realized on another forum (in Polish) that people start to open their eyes and ears, remove groundings added to their CD players and realize it's the best sound, and the power cord stops to matter because it has no share in music transfer any more.
One grounded component (amp/power amp), standard symmetrical interconnects (these cables truly matter - see my posts on copper vs. silver), and a good stock power cable. Actually you've already received it with your equipment. Happy listening!
Very informative post - have not heard anyone post that argument before but have dabbled a little bit in finding one central ground for the whole system in an effort to reduce noise and hum. Could you elaborate more on what you refer to as standard symmetrical IC's, and what exactly you are referring to? Thanks
post #71 of 177
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc303 View Post
No it isnt. This thread is so you can mention that you have a valhalla cable , tell people how much it cost over and over again and them mention some more of your hifi system.
I don't have one Valhalla, I have many.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc303 View Post
Maybe your "tweaks" have destroyed your $10,000 transport and you just havent realised yet or your $10,000 transport just wasnt worth $10,000
You didn't read what I wrote. The tweaks for the high-end transport reduced jitter and gave more low-level detail. The more I tweaked the more grey, dry and revealing it became, albums started sounding different from each other. It is more neutral and shows how the recording should sound like. But that doesn't mean it sounds like real life.

With Cary + tweaks I'm hearing the recording. With computer + Valhalla I'm hearing real life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc303 View Post
Also you would be better off playing with multiple power suplies to clean up the sound from your pc. IE , seperate quality suplies for the motherboard/cpu , graphics card, disk drives. Throwing a $3000 cable into a $100 pc power supply is a bit daft really as pc power supplies arent that good quality (especially as a good pc power supply costs more than your whole pc)
The PSU is supposed to be bad quality to increase the edginess, that's the point I'm trying to make.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc303 View Post
You do not hear jitter , you hear the cdp/dacs error correction circuits compensating for an incorrect bitstream. It is only when the data is so currupt that the error correction circuits cant cope that you will actually hear a harshness. This to me shows that you have a problem with your digital cable or your dac is damaged.
Then everyone's DACs are damaged. The transport and digital cables make a difference for many audiophiles. But the only difference is a different flavor of sound. The lower the jitter the warmer and more neutral it sounds. But the higher the jitter the colder and edgier it sounds. Since the jitter isn't linear the flavor you can use is almost infinite, but they all sacrifice something in the music.

You get the most low-level detail with the least jitter, and with stock cable that is what I got. Valhalla power cord removed low-level detail to make it cleaner. When adding more conductors to Valhalla, it will also make it heavier while removing even more low-level detail. It gives fake dynamics but it's less neutral.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue27/benchmark.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benchmark DAC1 review
If you do all I suggest here, the Benchmark DAC 1 is seriously close to the musical presentation of the Metronome for one twentieth the base cost. I liked it best fed with the Alesis Masterlink and the ModWright Sony. The better the transport, the better the result.

I've found with separate DACs, the transport and interconnecting digital cable play a huge role in the maximizing of the DAC's qualities. With optimum setup, the Benchmark can achieve stellar performance, well beyond its price point. Using the same treatment as I would a $10,000 piece in my system, it sounds like a $10,000 piece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc303 View Post
lastly - why are you replying to your own quotes ?
What is wrong with replying to my own quotes?
post #72 of 177
@majkel

I'll try to dig up the link, but I remember reading an article about balanced systems that stated signal ground and chassis/unit ground must be kept separate. Wouldn't most of the really high end systems out there in effect already be wired this way then?

Also, I would be really hesitant about removing the ground pins from my equipment if only for safety reasons. There was a huge thread about this in either the DIY or Amps forum.
post #73 of 177
Quote:
I don't have one Valhalla, I have many.
my point exactly

Quote:
You didn't read what I wrote. The tweaks for the high-end transport reduced jitter and gave more low-level detail. The more I tweaked the more grey, dry and revealing it became, albums started sounding different from each other. It is more neutral and shows how the recording should sound like. But that doesn't mean it sounds like real life.
how do you know your tweaks are reducing jitter?

maybe your tweaks are adding harmonic distortions and so highlighting different frequencies.

Quote:
With Cary + tweaks I'm hearing the recording. With computer + Valhalla I'm hearing real life.
how does real life trance music sound ?

Quote:
Then everyone's DACs are damaged. The transport and digital cables make a difference for many audiophiles. But the only difference is a different flavor of sound. The lower the jitter the warmer and more neutral it sounds. But the higher the jitter the colder and edgier it sounds. Since the jitter isn't linear the flavor you can use is almost infinite, but they all sacrifice something in the music.
Ive done a 4 way test between DAC/CDP ranging from a $100 soundcard , $1000 CDP , $400 DAC and $4000 DAC. They basically sound identical apart from a slight difference in lower mid/upper bass clarity.

Maybe I dont suffer from jitter.

Quote:
What is wrong with replying to my own quotes?
it shows a form of narcissism
post #74 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc303 View Post
No it isnt. This thread is so you can mention that you have a valhalla cable , tell people how much it cost over and over again and them mention some more of your hifi system.



Maybe your "tweaks" have destroyed your $10,000 transport and you just havent realised yet or your $10,000 transport just wasnt worth $10,000

Also you would be better off playing with multiple power suplies to clean up the sound from your pc. IE , seperate quality suplies for the motherboard/cpu , graphics card, disk drives. Throwing a $3000 cable into a $100 pc power supply is a bit daft really as pc power supplies arent that good quality (especially as a good pc power supply costs more than your whole pc)



You do not hear jitter , you hear the cdp/dacs error correction circuits compensating for an incorrect bitstream. It is only when the data is so currupt that the error correction circuits cant cope that you will actually hear a harshness. This to me shows that you have a problem with your digital cable or your dac is damaged.

lastly - why are you replying to your own quotes ?
Oh yes you'll hear jitter, jitter sounds more harsh, digital then cdpayers that have jitter less then 150 or better. Put in a better clock and you'll know for sure.


Also fibration reduction actually makes the cdplayer perform better, not worse.
post #75 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc303 View Post
it shows a form of narcissism
Yes Patrick is definitely narcissistic. Only he would come up with the balls to post as another person on another forum to validate his ERS paper claims.

Scroll down to post 103 and you will see a good portion of Patrick's motives in the forums. I honestly don't think it's about audio, it's about getting attention.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...=257703&page=6

The more people feed this troll, the more he does this stuff. It's a cycle.
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