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post #46 of 405
9/16/07 at 8:01pm
Is it just me, because I find Apache lacks transparency compared to Raptor or B52. Its not that the sound is veiled, I just feel I am not quite at the venue.

A more serious question: Is anyone bothered by the fact that a $3000 piece of hi-fi equipment uses opamps for its main amplification duty? Looking at the big picture: Should any $3000 and up preamp/amplifier/CDP/DAC use opamp in their signal path?
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post #47 of 405
9/16/07 at 8:02pm
Missing the Raptor at all? Can you talk about advantages and disadvantages of the Apache vs Raptor or is all Apache?

Still having Ray build be a Silver Raptor!
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post #48 of 405
9/16/07 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
Is anyone bothered by the fact that a $3000 piece of hi-fi equipment uses opamps for its main amplification duty?
No, I don't but I do have an issue with me paying 3000$ for any amp. But that is my personal issue.

Actually, I can see some positives with this approach. The circuit that is the opamp has better thermal equilibrium compared with a discrete circuit that it would otherwise have. The smaller opamp has the potential for having smaller more controlled tolerances in it's circuit design compared with a discrete design.

But the bottom line is how does is sound....!!!!
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post #49 of 405
9/16/07 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trose49 View Post
Missing the Raptor at all? Can you talk about advantages and disadvantages of the Apache vs Raptor or is all Apache?

Still having Ray build be a Silver Raptor!
Lol Todd, I see you're quite persistent about the silver Raptor - though I think it will look quite sexy in silver.

Am I missing the Raptor? Not at all (well, it does carry some sentimental value as it was my very first amp and I've had countless enjoyable sessions with it). Compared to the Raptor, Apache has better dynamics, imaging, texture and resolution all leading to a more involving sound. Apache also has the ability to paint a 3D image of the soundstage which I found to be somewhat 2D on the Raptor. This is more pronounced when listening to the Apache balanced. I attribute this to the perception of more information from each note that comes out from the Apache.
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post #50 of 405
9/16/07 at 9:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
Is it just me, because I find Apache lacks transparency compared to Raptor or B52. Its not that the sound is veiled, I just feel I am not quite at the venue.

A more serious question: Is anyone bothered by the fact that a $3000 piece of hi-fi equipment uses opamps for its main amplification duty? Looking at the big picture: Should any $3000 and up preamp/amplifier/CDP/DAC use opamp in their signal path?
but some of the apache is discrete. a good question though. however, until i can compare to B52, GSX, some SP balanced design, or Rudistor, it is hard to say.
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post #51 of 405
9/16/07 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctemkin View Post
Audio Addict,

I was interested to hear in your recent posting about yet more possible op amps. As I recall you had already bought some LT1028s to switch for the AD797s. Did it make a difference?

When I got my Apache I initially had some problem with noise at several of the lowest gain settings. Ray suggested switching the op amps for the LT1028s, and I did so. After 100 hours burn-in, which is what Ray recommended, they sounded great and did away with the noise problem. While switching op amps was pretty easy, I never did try to A/B them with the AD797s because I did not want to take any unnecessary risk. My impression is that the Apache sounded much the same with the LT1028s--extremely high resolution, very natural sound for instruments. I'm curious as to what your reaction was.

ctemkin
I can't say as Ray switch to the LT1028 for the second batch, so my Apache came with this chip so now I have a back up set. I still haven't found a source for the OPA627BP. However, I have ordered a set of the LME49710NA so I look forward to these. The article I read in The Absolute Sound had a similar view in the October Stereophile, which just came yesterday.
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post #52 of 405
9/16/07 at 9:50pm
Nebby posted this as a source for OPA627, although I got my 2 pairs from a fellow Head-Fi'er.

http://www.effectsconnection.com
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post #53 of 405
9/16/07 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
A more serious question: Is anyone bothered by the fact that a $3000 piece of hi-fi equipment uses opamps for its main amplification duty? Looking at the big picture: Should any $3000 and up preamp/amplifier/CDP/DAC use opamp in their signal path?
If you read the recent annoucement about the new National Semiconductor series of op-amps in The Absolute Sound and Stereophile, there are a lot of high-end companies utilizing op-amps in their designs. They are just one component of the total delivered package. There are a lot of costs most people don't even think about to bring a product to market.
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post #54 of 405
9/16/07 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2deadeyes View Post
Nebby posted this as a source for OPA627, although I got my 2 pairs from a fellow Head-Fi'er.

http://www.effectsconnection.com
They appear to only carry the OPA627AP not the OPA627BP that Ray has recommended.
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post #55 of 405
9/16/07 at 10:30pm

4 op-amps.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Addict View Post
I can't say as Ray switch to the LT1028 for the second batch, so my Apache came with this chip so now I have a back up set. I still haven't found a source for the OPA627BP. However, I have ordered a set of the LME49710NA so I look forward to these. The article I read in The Absolute Sound had a similar view in the October Stereophile, which just came yesterday.
If buying op-amps, remember to buy 4 at the time as there are 4 amps in the Apache.
Ray Samuels
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post #56 of 405
9/16/07 at 11:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Afrikane View Post
Anybody else think the HD650 loses a little slam factor out of the Apache?
when compared to what?
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post #57 of 405
9/16/07 at 11:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Samuels View Post
If buying op-amps, remember to buy 4 at the time as there are 4 amps in the Apache.
Ray Samuels
If I want to change tubes on my Stealth, I need 2 at a cost of $100 to $150 or more. For the Apache, I need 4 opamps. Even 4 of the OPA627BP would only set me back about $100, but only if I can find them.
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post #58 of 405
9/16/07 at 11:28pm
2deadeyes,

Have you tried using your UE-10s on the Apache? How do they compare to your various excellent cans? I've really enjoyed the Apache with my UE-10s, but I don't have much to compare them with. I am still waiting for balanced cables for Senn 600s.

ctemkin
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post #59 of 405
9/16/07 at 11:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Addict View Post
If you read the recent annoucement about the new National Semiconductor series of op-amps in The Absolute Sound and Stereophile, there are a lot of high-end companies utilizing op-amps in their designs. They are just one component of the total delivered package. There are a lot of costs most people don't even think about to bring a product to market.
uh..if you read further back in the 'manufacturer comment' section, there is a pretty passionate rebuttal by Ayre
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post #60 of 405
9/17/07 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctemkin View Post
2deadeyes,

Have you tried using your UE-10s on the Apache? How do they compare to your various excellent cans? I've really enjoyed the Apache with my UE-10s, but I don't have much to compare them with. I am still waiting for balanced cables for Senn 600s.

ctemkin
I sure did . The one thing that jumps out is the level of details. I can safely say that it even surpasses the level of details on the W5000s balanced (they are definitely no slouch in this department).
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