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How much do you weight the power cord from outlet? - Page 3

post #31 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
"...For me, it's just that tone-balance of that amp doesn't suit me right even it sounds better than grace m902 in terms of hi-fi sound..."
The tone-balance you are hearing is probably the tone balance of the source you are using, this amp does not change the tonal balance at all, it only lets you hear what is behind it, that is why so imporntat that the source should be good, it is completelly transparent and fast, as any hi-end amp should be...
post #32 of 83
I've heard (at least I think I've heard) differences made by swapping even modest (but better than stock) power cords into my systems.

Still, if I thought that power was that much of an issue in my house & for my system, then I'd prefer to invest the serious $$'s into true power regeneration rather than band-aiding the problem.

Doesn't that make more sense?
post #33 of 83
I would pull out the romex from the wall and solder it directly to my equipments transformer/pcb before spending $5000 on a power cord... but that is just me. It may not look nice, but it should sound great!
post #34 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by WindowsX View Post
Because we don't know everything about power cord so we can't end up making such promising conclusion, right?
Maybe, but what possible theory can you ascribe to a power cord effecting sound that you can't ascribe to the meters of wiring going from your switchbox to your outlet?

This is a very typical wiring setup for an outlet. Note the wires being used to wire it up. You have meters of that stuff going back to your fusebox.
post #35 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu View Post
Maybe, but what possible theory can you ascribe to a power cord effecting sound that you can't ascribe to the meters of wiring going from your switchbox to your outlet?

This is a very typical wiring setup for an outlet. Note the wires being used to wire it up. You have meters of that stuff going back to your fusebox.
Why must some people have to have theories with measurements????
We listen to music not someone reciting theories.


The simple way for "YOU" to prove to "YOURSELF" that there is or is not a difference, is to procure a power cord and even maybe an outlet (borrow from a friend or an audio dealer...or purchase with a 30 day return policy)
install into your system and have a listen.

You will be the sole judge on the quality of sound.
post #36 of 83
Some people need theories and measurement to prove that something exists - that's ok. Others on the otherhand can't accept that your $500 power cable can't replace something missing in the music. People have biases and views based on their experiences and belief systems.

Either way it's ok. If there was no robust discussion on these boards it would be pretty dull.
post #37 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 883dave View Post
Why must some people have to have theories with measurements????
Because in this case . . .

(1) The analytic measurements show no difference.

(2) The analogies given (garden hose) are completely false.

(3) The human body is notoriously bad at these kind of tests.

(4) These things didn't come from god, they were created by someone. And being created by someone, there must be some theory behind the design. It's not too much to ask exactly what those theories are.
post #38 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu View Post
Because in this case . . .

(1) The analytic measurements show no difference.

(2) The analogies given (garden hose) are completely false.

(3) The human body is notoriously bad at these kind of tests.

(4) These things didn't come from god, they were created by someone. And being created by someone, there must be some theory behind the design. It's not too much to ask exactly what those theories are.

If you have two recordings of the same material by the same artist from the same master tapes, and one sounds better to you, do you

1. send a note to the mastering company and get the settings or "measurements" ?

2. atribute the difference to placebo?

3. do you accept your own hearing and listen to the recording that sounds best to you?

Theory and measurement are great, however this is a hobby of personal preceived impressions.


To me it make more sense to have a dissusion by people that have actually tried different power cords in their system, and what they heard if anything.

Have you tried any after market power cords in your system? If so what were your impressions?
post #39 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 883dave View Post
Theory and measurement are great, however this is a hobby of personal preceived impressions.
Maybe for you, but some of us do not like to waste our money on snake oil. I would much rather trust accurate measurements backed up by proven, scientific facts than an analysis derived from what someone "thinks" they can hear. If you cannot measure a difference with tools that are much more accurate than the human ear, can there possibly any difference that isn't placebo? Sure, this hobby is about what we like to hear, but there isn't any reason to full yourself into thinking that there are differences when there really aren't.

The problem with any sort of power or audio cable is that garbage in always results in garbage out. If you send "dirty" power from the outlet through your power cord, it will not magically become clean, wonderful power. This is the same as if you hook up expensive cables to an abysmal source. The cables might perform a better job of transferring the signals, but that doesn't make it sound any less abysmal.

Personally, I would spend about $30 on a power cord if it had a really nice construction, but anything beyond that seems downright silly to me.
post #40 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
Power cord should be foremost on your upgrade list ahead of all interconnects and spkr/headphone cable. Power is 50% of sound, and garbage in, garbage out
This is the dumbest thing ive ever heard.

If a power cord changes the sound 50% then there would be no debate over whether it changes sound or not.
post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotchaforce View Post
This is the dumbest thing ive ever heard.

If a power cord changes the sound 50% then there would be no debate over whether it changes sound or not.
I dont know if I would agree that it is 50%, BUT I do agree that the power supply (cords, outlets, filtering) is more important, and has bigger impact on the sound than interconnects and speaker cabling.

And this is after lots of DIY and trial and error, and eating much humble pie from my perspective 8 years ago when I thought power cables made no difference.
post #42 of 83
Thread Starter 
Not like 50% It's just about 5-20% depending on power cord but my Nite II combined with Anniversary turns m902 a lot of step up.
post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malus View Post
Maybe for you, but some of us do not like to waste our money on snake oil. I would much rather trust accurate measurements backed up by proven, scientific facts than an analysis derived from what someone "thinks" they can hear. If you cannot measure a difference with tools that are much more accurate than the human ear, can there possibly any difference that isn't placebo? Sure, this hobby is about what we like to hear, but there isn't any reason to full yourself into thinking that there are differences when there really aren't.

The problem with any sort of power or audio cable is that garbage in always results in garbage out. If you send "dirty" power from the outlet through your power cord, it will not magically become clean, wonderful power. This is the same as if you hook up expensive cables to an abysmal source. The cables might perform a better job of transferring the signals, but that doesn't make it sound any less abysmal.

Personally, I would spend about $30 on a power cord if it had a really nice construction, but anything beyond that seems downright silly to me.
This is a sport of trial and error. In todays market we are able to borrow or purchase and return items, so one can try different things in their system.

Take the specks on an amplifier, most are the same or close, however most will sound different "snake oil?", measurement and specks are great and also a great way for someone to sell you an inferrior product.

or take Bose their measurements are not that far out of line with some of the best speakers out there, so would you go blindly and purchase them solely on measurement?

If you can't trust your ears, why would you even bother with this hobby

Also have you ever seen a bee fly? Science is at a loss to explain how and why a bee can fly.
post #44 of 83


My DAC & Amp have fancy powerleads, so that pic is a bit of a joke...
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 883dave View Post
This is a sport of trial and error. In todays market we are able to borrow or purchase and return items, so one can try different things in their system.

Take the specks on an amplifier, most are the same or close, however most will sound different "snake oil?", measurement and specks are great and also a great way for someone to sell you an inferrior product.

or take Bose their measurements are not that far out of line with some of the best speakers out there, so would you go blindly and purchase them solely on measurement?

If you can't trust your ears, why would you even bother with this hobby

Also have you ever seen a bee fly? Science is at a loss to explain how and why a bee can fly.
I wanted to bow out gracefully, but this post really shows such a contempt for research I just have to respond.

1a. Bose measurements. They don't publish them. In fact, they go a step further, they are philosophically against them. A quote from the abstract:

Quote:
In the quest for better ways to measure and evaluate loudspeakers, it is natural to search for quantitative objective tests to replace the qualitative subjective methods that are vulnerable to the large variances of individual value judgement. In this pursuit, there is the danger of employing objective standards whose correlation to the ultimate goal of natural sound reproduction is open to serious question. This paper examines the merits and shortcomings of some of the well known measurement criteria and presents some new approaches intended to make steps in the direction of more meaningful measurement and evaluation procedures.
.

And the measurements that have been done are very, very far from the "not that far out of line with some of the best speakers out there". The FR of their acoustimass system:



1b. More about measurements. Yes they can be used to sell you snake oil, but that is if you let them be interpreted for you. And at the very least, we're talking about things that are measurable. The difference between the ripple and noise between a boutique cable and a standard one are virtually zero. The difference between the output DC current of a well designed power supply between a boutique cable and a standard cable is indistinguishable from noise.

2. The bee issue. I usually see this argument in "intelligent design" debates, and to see it brought up as fact in a cable debate is, well, not surprising. From wikipedia:

Quote:
According to 20th century folklore, the laws of aerodynamics prove that the bumblebee should be incapable of flight, as it does not have the capacity (in terms of wing size or beat per second) to achieve flight with the degree of wing loading necessary. Not being aware of scientists 'proving' it cannot fly, the bumblebee succeeds under "the power of its own arrogance" (McFadden et. al. 2007). The origin of this myth has been difficult to pin down with any certainty. John McMasters recounted an anecdote about an unnamed Swiss aerodynamicist at a dinner party who performed some rough calculations and concluded, presumably in jest, that according to the equations, bumblebees cannot fly.[17] In later years McMasters has backed away from this origin, suggesting that there could be multiple sources, and that the earliest he has found was a reference in the 1934 French book Le vol des insectes by M. Magnan. Magnan is reported to have written that he and a Mr. Saint-Lague had applied the equations of air resistance to insects and found that their flight was impossible, but that "One shouldn't be surprised that the results of the calculations don't square with reality".[18]

It is believed[citation needed] that the calculations which purported to show that bumblebees cannot fly are based upon a simplified linear treatment of oscillating aerofoils. The method assumes small amplitude oscillations without flow separation. This ignores the effect of dynamic stall, an airflow separation inducing a large vortex above the wing, which briefly produces several times the lift of the aerofoil in regular flight. More sophisticated aerodynamic analysis shows that the bumblebee can fly because its wings encounter dynamic stall in every oscillation cycle.
3. You do no service to yourself by making facts up. So stop it.
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