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Audio hobby complete - tweaks are great - Page 7

post #91 of 135
9/19/07 at 10:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
Hmm, maybe you had to test some more products before spending 7000 quit on fibration reduction.

But then again, it's you're money. If you're satisfied.
If a tweak doesn't add any weaknesses there is no limit of what I'm willing to spend on it. If a tweak doesn't burn up in a fire, you bet I'm spending my life savings on it! Magix is hard to build yourself so I bought a few of them, I liked them and bought more, now I have 18 of them.
Feet of Silence could be built from wood or something, maybe not, wood easily cracks and burns.

Magix is the best thing for the price I have bought in my whole life. It's a great value because Valhalla cable burns, ERS Paper burns, but Magix stays!



This is my list:

0.1% = Normal upgrade
1% = HUGE difference
20% = Night and day

Headphones: 35%
Vibration isolation: 26%
Valhalla power cord: 16%
ERS Paper: 14%
Interconnects: 4%
Headphone cable: 3%
Premier Power Plant: 1%
DAC: 0.6%
Amp: 0.3%
Transport: 0.09%
Digital cable: 0.01%
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post #92 of 135
9/20/07 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
If a tweak doesn't add any weaknesses there is no limit of what I'm willing to spend on it. If a tweak doesn't burn up in a fire, you bet I'm spending my life savings on it! Magix is hard to build yourself so I bought a few of them, I liked them and bought more, now I have 18 of them.
Feet of Silence could be built from wood or something, maybe not, wood easily cracks and burns.

Magix is the best thing for the price I have bought in my whole life. It's a great value because Valhalla cable burns, ERS Paper burns, but Magix stays!



This is my list:

0.1% = Normal upgrade
1% = HUGE difference
20% = Night and day

Headphones: 35%
Vibration isolation: 26%
Valhalla power cord: 16%
ERS Paper: 14%
Interconnects: 4%
Headphone cable: 3%
Premier Power Plant: 1%
DAC: 0.6%
Amp: 0.3%
Transport: 0.09%
Digital cable: 0.01%
I agree on the first 3, having huge impact on the overall sound. However, going from a good IC to the valkyrja was also a huge difference!

So, my list would be:

Totally modding the amp
headphones
powercord/IC
Fibration reduction.

It's a toss up between powercord/IC and fibration reduction. They both made quite an impact.


Actually, my powerplant made the sound worse(i would loose some detail), after totally modding the amplifier(about 60-75% new high end materials used). The better the filtering in the powersection is, the better it will sound without any external filtering! So, i am currently only using the filter for the dvd and television, since it cleans up the noise on the tele.

But, i am using a passive filter. One that regenerates clean power could have some benefit, not sure now.
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post #93 of 135
9/20/07 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
If a tweak doesn't add any weaknesses there is no limit of what I'm willing to spend on it. If a tweak doesn't burn up in a fire, you bet I'm spending my life savings on it! Magix is hard to build yourself so I bought a few of them, I liked them and bought more, now I have 18 of them.
Feet of Silence could be built from wood or something, maybe not, wood easily cracks and burns.

Magix is the best thing for the price I have bought in my whole life. It's a great value because Valhalla cable burns, ERS Paper burns, but Magix stays!



This is my list:

0.1% = Normal upgrade
1% = HUGE difference
20% = Night and day

Headphones: 35%
Vibration isolation: 26%
Valhalla power cord: 16%
ERS Paper: 14%
Interconnects: 4%
Headphone cable: 3%
Premier Power Plant: 1%
DAC: 0.6%
Amp: 0.3%
Transport: 0.09%
Digital cable: 0.01%
You could try the quadraspire just for fun and compare! 35 euro's is nothing for you and you might be surprised.
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post #94 of 135
9/20/07 at 8:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
Actually, my powerplant made the sound worse(i would loose some detail),
If there is excessive brightness in the system a power filter will improve the sound because it tones down the brightness. But it removes detail. I have noticed that the only time a power conditioner really improves the sound is if it makes it brighter! When you get more dynamics you get brighter sound. Ultimate Outlet just veiled the sound, P300 Power Plant slowed down the sound and boosted up the bass to make it very warm and dark, but with the sacrifice of detail. Premier Power Plant is the only power conditioner I have tried that actually improved the sound. It made it heavier and faster with more dynamics, it was more fatiguing than the wall because the extra low-level detail made it sound brighter.

It's not a good idea to reduce brightness with a power conditioner. When I'm using Magix levitation feet I'm not getting any brightness at all. 2 years ago I couldn't even listen to vocals because of the sibilance. A P300 Power Plant and fat Valhalla power cable solved the problem. But I didn't realize it was only because they worsened the sound.
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post #95 of 135
9/21/07 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Digital cable: 0%
fixed for you
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post #96 of 135
9/21/07 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
I was getting excited but then I checked your profile and saw that you are male.
oh dont be so old fashioned man, you never heard of a good old fashioned platonic relationship based on our common interests
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post #97 of 135
9/24/07 at 6:38pm
Thread Starter 

Warm-up is real!

Warm-up of system


I'm still surprised of the huge difference warm-up does to the system.

In the first couple hours there was lack of bass, but then the bass appeared. Within 24 hours it sounded good, but after 25-26 hours it got warmer which gave the illusion of dullness. It sounded dull between 1-5 days. But after 6 days the transparency started opening up.

I have heard the same things with all my previous warm-up cycles, they are accurate within the hour.

When it sounded too warm and dull between those 1-5 days I was considering changing the Valkyrja interconnect to Valhalla to make it colder, but the problem was gone after I let my system warm-up a couple days more! That's how huge the difference from warm-up is, one week warm-up is like a cable or connector upgrade.
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post #98 of 135
9/24/07 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Warm-up of system


I'm still surprised of the huge difference warm-up does to the system.

In the first couple hours there was lack of bass, but then the bass appeared. Within 24 hours it sounded good, but after 25-26 hours it got warmer which gave the illusion of dullness. It sounded dull between 1-5 days. But after 6 days the transparency started opening up.

I have heard the same things with all my previous warm-up cycles, they are accurate within the hour.

When it sounded too warm and dull between those 1-5 days I was considering changing the Valkyrja interconnect to Valhalla to make it colder, but the problem was gone after I let my system warm-up a couple days more! That's how huge the difference from warm-up is, one week warm-up is like a cable or connector upgrade.
You cannot warm up a system for a week or so, if you have huge changes, there still might be an active part burning in!

An amp or cdplayer will not change significantly between 2 or 1 week. If any, most benefit from active cooling.

If the cdplayer or your amp is at room temperature, they'll perform at it's best.

There has to be something else at play here, maybe a cable or other component.

Tubes do sound different when cold, they perform better after a few hours when they are hot; this is not the case for mosfets or transistors in general, if any, you need to keep em as cool as possible. The lower the temperature, the better they sound or the more efficient they are!

Remember that valkyrja and valhalla needs to burn in again if you didn't use em for a certain period, in the manual they talk about a week.

I do agree on alot of stuff with you but not this one.
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post #99 of 135
9/24/07 at 7:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
You cannot warm up a system for a week or so, if you have huge changes, there still might be an active part burning in!

An amp or cdplayer will not change significantly between 2 or 1 week. If any, most benefit from active cooling.

If the cdplayer or your amp is at room temperature, they'll perform at it's best.

There has to be something else at play here, maybe a cable or other component.

Tubes do sound different when cold, they perform better after a few hours when they are hot; this is not the case for mosfets or transistors in general, if any, you need to keep em as cool as possible. The lower the temperature, the better they sound or the more efficient they are!

Remember that valkyrja and valhalla needs to burn in again if you didn't use em for a certain period, in the manual they talk about a week.

I do agree on alot of stuff with you but not this one.
Maybe I'm not using the correct name for it. Maybe "refilling of juice" is a better name. Burn-in is something that you do the first time when the component is new or unused for a long time. When I turn off the component for 1 second and back on again, I need to burn it in again which takes weeks. I don't think it has to do with the cables. There is something going on with the capacitors. My ICEpower amp has been burning in for about 12 000 hours and my DAC about 23 000 hours. They are designed for 24/7 operation. When I disconnect the juice from the capacitors and connect it back again, there is turbulence when fresh juice starts rushing in. And then it needs many weeks of stabilization for the juice to remain still. When new waves of juice keep entering the capacitor it takes a long time for it to stabilize.
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post #100 of 135
9/24/07 at 11:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Maybe I'm not using the correct name for it. Maybe "refilling of juice" is a better name. Burn-in is something that you do the first time when the component is new or unused for a long time. When I turn off the component for 1 second and back on again, I need to burn it in again which takes weeks. I don't think it has to do with the cables. There is something going on with the capacitors. My ICEpower amp has been burning in for about 12 000 hours and my DAC about 23 000 hours. They are designed for 24/7 operation. When I disconnect the juice from the capacitors and connect it back again, there is turbulence when fresh juice starts rushing in. And then it needs many weeks of stabilization for the juice to remain still. When new waves of juice keep entering the capacitor it takes a long time for it to stabilize.
Right......
1 second IS not even enough to significantly cool off any active hot components ( mosfets, transistors, tubes, caps etc.), that takes several minutes at least! And it takes also much longer to completely drain a cap!
Some even 12 hours or more, hence the use of bleeder resistors, to drain the caps immediatly.

Recently i totally moded my amp and loads, and i really mean loads of new caps in there, new cables, new resistors etc. Now, after 300 hours of burn in, the amp actually sound the same when i play some cd's and turn it off again and turn it on again. No changes anymore, if any, your caps will deteriate slowly. I am not sure it is soo good for caps to operate 24/7.

Some designs even have bleeder resistors on the caps to completely drain the cap, if not in use!
maybe it is these designs withut bleeders that benefit from 24/7 operation, since caps will wear because of turning on and off etc.

At least my amp still sounds the same every time i turn it on and listen to a cd.

What type of caps do you have in your amp? oils, teflon?

I've never heard anybody claiming the amp sounding different after a burn in period!

12000 hours! If any these caps are getting worse, not better! 12000 hours is way beyond even for the hardest to burn in caps, like teflon caps wich need at least 500 hours to fully burn in! Oils need at least 250-300 hours of burn in. That's it. 12.000 hours is wayyyy past any burn in of any active component.

It is true however that caps can fibrate, hence most are tied to the pcb, to stop fibration. But i have a hard time believing it takes weeks to fill the caps, it doesn't.

I can hear quite easally differences between cables, amps, turntables and cdplayers but i don't hear a differecne in sound now my amp has burned in completely. it sounds the same every day i put the amp and cdplayer on and listen to the music, the same cd's still sound the same, day in day out.
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post #101 of 135
9/25/07 at 5:36am
Thread Starter 

Fat Valhalla for computer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Impressions: It sounds much heavier. But stuff in the music are missing, it just sounds boom-boom-boom, it is very slow, the small bass transients aren't there anymore.
I liked the 1 conductor cable more, even when it was longer.
Within the first week of warm-up I just wanted to switch back to the 1 conductor Valhalla because the low-level details were cut off very badly. But after a week the low-level details are acceptable. When listening to my tweaked reference Cary transport it seems that there is an overkill of low-level detail in my system now, and it doesn't matter that my computer's fat Valhalla removes some low-level detail. The fat Valhalla trades low-level detail for extra heaviness, it seems like I will keep it.
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post #102 of 135
9/25/07 at 2:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
At least my amp still sounds the same every time i turn it on and listen to a cd.
Doesn't the sound change at all after it has been turned on for many hours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
What type of caps do you have in your amp? oils, teflon?
Blackgates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
I've never heard anybody claiming the amp sounding different after a burn in period!
ICEpower amps are different technology than normal amps. I found a Bel Canto amplifier manual and it says this:

http://www.belcantodesign.com/pdfs/UG_eOneS300_M300.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bel Canto website manual
Warm Up
The amplifier’s sonic performance will start to stabilize after approximately 100 hours of continuous power up. We recommend that the amplifier remains powered for optimum performance.

BTW, I also found that a 3rd generation ICEpower module was just released. I bet PS Audio and Bel Canto will have new amps next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
I can hear quite easally differences between cables, amps, turntables and cdplayers but i don't hear a differecne in sound now my amp has burned in completely. it sounds the same every day i put the amp and cdplayer on and listen to the music, the same cd's still sound the same, day in day out.
Maybe I'm just insane.

I asked others at PS Audio forum, no response yet: http://boards.psaudio.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4811
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post #103 of 135
9/26/07 at 1:36am
Patrick..

Again another self-promoting thread.... ooh another valhalla tweak. Reading your threads makes me not even want to think about updating parts of my system.

Anyway, I think you do this for the attention.... I found a link to a forum in which you pretend to not know what ERS paper can do for a system...

Very entertaining, Patrick.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...ded&pid=511820

Do you do anything else other than stir the pot online?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post
It seems that you still don't get it, with all due respect, Patrick doesn't like sound, he doesn't like music, he doesn't like even tweaking, he only likes to get the attention of others, and trust me that he is getting good by day....

Are you going to tell me that these pics are really from a sane person setup??? Probably he removes all this crap from all over the amps, and cables after taking the pictures...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
I don't work or shower, I do audio 24/7. I don't travel, the only shopping I do is for my next audio tweak that I buy online. I even dream about audio at night. When I sit at the computer I spend the time writing into my tweaking logs. I only go to toilet because the sticky chair would become a distraction otherwise. I shower when the smell interferes with my concentration, since I got a lot of practice I don't need to shower for a long time. When I'm hungry I eat some food. When I walk into the kitchen I practice my walking + listening technique to improve my hearing. When I walk I rotate and tilt my head slowly because it improves the soundstage accuracy. I also walk smoothly and quietly because I don't want loud thumps in my ears.
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post #104 of 135
9/26/07 at 1:45am
I guess the blog feature came just too late. It could have been a place for you to post without contaminating the main forums. Maybe when you come back for more in the future, you could just do it in your own blog.
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post #105 of 135
9/26/07 at 2:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey_V View Post
Patrick..

Again another self-promoting thread.... ooh another valhalla tweak. Reading your threads makes me not even want to think about updating parts of my system.

Anyway, I think you do this for the attention.... I found a link to a forum in which you pretend to not know what ERS paper can do for a system...

Very entertaining, Patrick.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...ded&pid=511820

Do you do anything else other than stir the pot online?
Heehee...
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