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post #106 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
True, but perhaps it does not carry the weight you stress on it. I would consider intelligence the ability to solve problems quickly, effectively and efficiently. I would think that this skill is usually acquired through practice and most likely to be done during a person's academic career. There would definitely be exceptions to this, when people with a great capacity for intelligent do not gain it through education (and lots of people who are simply incapable of being intelligent gain nothing in the sames ystem), but I do believe that a "bright" or intelligent person, through education will achieve much more than without.

Oh, and about the growing gap between academics and intelligence, I absolutely agree, but it is not because they are so different, it is because the public primary and secondary school systems are a complete joke! It's embarrassing to hear what they put in the curriculum these days. Last time I checked they actually had mandatory community service and fitting into society courses!
If I had explained it further earlier, I would have included your second paragraph as part of my explanation, I certainly agree.

As to your first point, as I said previous, I work as a transfer counselor at a college (don't ask), and I have to disagree strongly with you, I don't think the education enhances your intelligence. It may appear that way on the surface, but I'd give the nod to an uneducated intelligent person over the multitude of educated unintelligent people anyday, and no amount of practice or education seems to help the situation. I may sound harsh, but a lot of these college level kids are no better than talking to a block of stone.
post #107 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirosia View Post
Academics is a measure of "book" smarts, isn't it? In that sense, I was pretty crappy.

I personally never considered book smarts to hold much value. It's mostly memorization and the amount of time you're willing to spend "studying", which is a roundabout term for memorization.
post #108 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
Oh, and about the growing gap between academics and intelligence, I absolutely agree, but it is not because they are so different, it is because the public primary and secondary school systems are a complete joke! It's embarrassing to hear what they put in the curriculum these days. Last time I checked they actually had mandatory community service and fitting into society courses!
I don't have any kids, but a lot of my neighbors do. Here in Virginia, schools are judged on the results of standardized tests. For about half the school year, the kids are taught only the questions that are on the test. They're not taught to think, only to memorize. One neighbor told me that her kid's class was doing some type of game show using questions from past year's tests. One question had 2 correct answers. Her kid picked one and the teacher said it was wrong because the test said the other. Admittedly, the kid wouldn't have had a problem on the real test since it's multiple choice and both correct answers weren't in the choices.
post #109 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeAmEye View Post
I personally never considered book smarts to hold much value. It's mostly memorization and the amount of time you're willing to spend "studying", which is a roundabout term for memorization.
Strongly disagree.

Book learning gives you the tools you need to make use of your innate intelligence. No matter how smart you are, you're nothing more than a gifted amateur without book learning to back you up. Just because some people manage to pick up the trappings of "book smarts" without mastering even the rudimentary aspects of the material is no reason to disparage book learning.
post #110 of 170
You understand of course, that if you forced poor Miss South Carolina to read this entire thread with full comprehension, her head would explode.
post #111 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahn View Post
You understand of course, that if you forced poor Miss South Carolina to read this entire thread with full comprehension, her head would explode.
This assumes that she can read.
post #112 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin View Post
Strongly disagree.

Book learning gives you the tools you need to make use of your innate intelligence. No matter how smart you are, you're nothing more than a gifted amateur without book learning to back you up. Just because some people manage to pick up the trappings of "book smarts" without mastering even the rudimentary aspects of the material is no reason to disparage book learning.
It has its place, but is of far less importance than is emphasized.
post #113 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahn View Post
You understand of course, that if you forced poor Miss South Carolina to read this entire thread with full comprehension, her head would explode.
Hehehe

Anyways, I think the biggest problem in the US with ejumacation is the odd governmental policies here. NCLB and stuff like the WASL spring to mind. Benchmarks are all well and good as long as they don't interfere with actual education. Sadly they do in a big way. I've often heard how schooling now consists largely of learning to pass tests and make a school look good in rankings. When your only goal is to teach kids how to pass tests you're sacrificing real education in the process. You're limiting what you teach and what they learn to fit some idiotic score that, ultimately, is meaningless outside it's own ends.

Of course you're going to fare poorly in general education when it's sidelined due to it being considered unimportant in exams. Education is much more than test results. It's screwed up.
post #114 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by F107plus5 View Post
Actually this isn't so far-fetched as it seems on the surface.

....after giving it a moments thought.

There have been so many middle-management types taken out of the chain since the take-over of computers, that the secretary types have taken over many of the middle management responsibilities at that. What a middle manager did in hours of expensive tedious labor at his desk a few years ago is now accomplished by a couple of keystrokes by the secretary who used to work for him.

Interesting turn of events.
My experience was the opposite. I worked at a contracting company in 1997 and they did not have a single PC in the whole company (about 20 people). The boss bought a bunch of IBM Win95 boxes and had me admin them. Well, the secretaries soon had nothing to do because management was typing all their own stuff on the PC's. What was worse these guys were all computer illiterate baby-boomers, and I spent most of the time trying to explain how to use Excell to them:
(Middle Management Moron): How do I get the !@#$%^&*( figure into the little )(*&^%$#@ square!?!?!?
Me: Click on it.
MMM: You mean with the little pointer thing?
Me: *shoots self*
post #115 of 170
That was a funny video==thanks! (A shame about the people without maps..)
post #116 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by redshifter View Post
My experience was the opposite. I worked at a contracting company in 1997 and they did not have a single PC in the whole company (about 20 people). The boss bought a bunch of IBM Win95 boxes and had me admin them. Well, the secretaries soon had nothing to do because management was typing all their own stuff on the PC's. What was worse these guys were all computer illiterate baby-boomers, and I spent most of the time trying to explain how to use Excell to them:
(Middle Management Moron): How do I get the !@#$%^&*( figure into the little )(*&^%$#@ square!?!?!?
Me: Click on it.
MMM: You mean with the little pointer thing?
Me: *shoots self*
In the mid 90s, I was working as a contractor at a large corporation. The second level manager had been one of their top salesmen and burnt out at sales. So they decided to have him manage 80 programmers. About 6 months after he started, he came running out of his office very excited because he had just discovered the delete key We wondered what he was doing before discovering delete. This guy had been in charge of multi million dollar deals, but I guess always had someone else do the typing. Because he didn't have a clue as to what we were doing, he managed strictly on cosmetics. Your cubes had to be orderly, nothing visible over the top, etc. Unfortunately, he wasn't the worst manage I've ever had.
post #117 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by scompton View Post
In the mid 90s, I was working as a contractor at a large corporation. The second level manager had been one of their top salesmen and burnt out at sales. So they decided to have him manage 80 programmers. About 6 months after he started, he came running out of his office very excited because he had just discovered the delete key We wondered what he was doing before discovering delete. This guy had been in charge of multi million dollar deals, but I guess always had someone else do the typing. Because he didn't have a clue as to what we were doing, he managed strictly on cosmetics. Your cubes had to be orderly, nothing visible over the top, etc. Unfortunately, he wasn't the worst manage I've ever had.

Hello, computer!
post #118 of 170
This whole discussion reminds me of my long-held suspicion that the high muckety-mucks that run America have decided that America and/or 'Mericans are obsolete. It would explain so many things. I disagree totally, but I'm not the one who decides these things.

Laz
post #119 of 170
The real question is: can 1/5 of Head-Fiers locate CanJam '08 on a map?
post #120 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus Short View Post
This whole discussion reminds me of my long-held suspicion that the high muckety-mucks that run America have decided that America and/or 'Mericans are obsolete. It would explain so many things. I disagree totally, but I'm not the one who decides these things.

Laz
Well; it is rather obvious that lower class "Americans" are being legislated out of existence by our national leaders in New York, but I'm not about to bring THAT up.
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