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Sony Playstation SCPH-1001 one of the best cd players around? - Page 2

post #16 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin View Post
Have any of the people who deride the PS1 actually heard a properly modded version where the DC blocking caps and passive output have been implemented ? I tried a 1002 using the exisiting phono sockets, it was really nothing special, dull and closed in. After the mods, all I can say is that the hype is fairly accurate, not $6,000 accurate, but "this shouldn't sound this good " accurate.
Yes, but then it's really no longer a Playstation, is it? It's a Playstation with mods which made it sound good. You could apply the same principle to anything.

Like the Playstation, a Honda Civic is a mass-produced product, which is absolutely nothing special. But there are a slew of mods you can do to make the car lots of fun to drive, but then it's not really a Honda Civic, anymore.

So if someone was talking trash about the Playstation, it was probably a stock one.
post #17 of 86
What technical reasons exist that a ps1 could not sound excellent?
post #18 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logistics View Post
Yes, but then it's really no longer a Playstation, is it? It's a Playstation with mods which made it sound good. You could apply the same principle to anything.

Like the Playstation, a Honda Civic is a mass-produced product, which is absolutely nothing special. But there are a slew of mods you can do to make the car lots of fun to drive, but then it's not really a Honda Civic, anymore.

So if someone was talking trash about the Playstation, it was probably a stock one.
Wait, are you saying if you mod something it is no longer what it is?

Excuse me but, what?
post #19 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post
300$ for a volume pot is actually not that expensive (it's easy to go above 1k$) but I think you are referring to the Audio Consulting volume knob. I don't doubt that it does indeed work since the level of design and tweaking AC is at far surpasses all but a couple of "hi-fi" manufacturers. There is a good reason why the volume knob has a big impact on sound quality but it's more of an issue with speaker based systems.

Audio Consulting have far surpassed the point of diminishing returns and stuff like that doesn't matter, ultimate performance is the only goal and at any cost. People buying for instance Wilson speakers, Musical Fidelity gear and Transparent cables are the gullible ones.
Volume control indeed makes a difference in sound quality, now that $500 wooden volume KNOB on the other hand ...
post #20 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JadeEast View Post
What technical reasons exist that a ps1 could not sound excellent?
I think the fundamental reasons are while the DAC chip is quite decent and better than other PS-1s its still not a top, top flight DAC chip also it is a single DAC chip not dual differential DAC chips or anything. (This is probably the smaller reason).

The bigger reason is the transport mechanism on a PS-1 probably is incredibly bad. I'm not sure though, but I think its just a crappycd rom drive with an incredibly crappy laser that failed very quickly for me. This is an important component of a quality transport. So if you replace the power, bypass some crap and upgrade some components and then go and replace the transport mechanism then really you don't have much left of the original PS-1 except for that decent but not godly DAC chip.
post #21 of 86
All those mods do is bypass the output stage with a high-pass filter. You can also use a transformer but it won't fit inside the PSX without some serious mods. Most CDPs would benefit from a similar mod if their dacs are up to it.

It's not really the transport that is so horrible, but the power supply. The transports in 90% of all high end players sold today are far worse, cheap DVD drives like in the Meridian G08 for example. The PSU in the G08 is even worse then the Sony unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 003 View Post
Volume control indeed makes a difference in sound quality, now that $500 wooden volume KNOB on the other hand ...
I do admit that the 500$ is a bit excessive but the knob is hand made, treated many times with expensive lacquer and that costs a lot. Add to that the dealer markup and it's reached 500$. It's not really that much since the transformer preamp it is designed for costs more then 15k$.

The volume knob is connected directly to the volume pot or switch and any vibrations in it will be transfered directly into the very delicate line signal. This is really only an issue when every bit is upgraded and
post #22 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JadeEast View Post
What technical reasons exist that a ps1 could not sound excellent?
None whatsoever.

Reading the pits and bumps on a CD is trivial, error correction is highly advanced to the point where I generally get zero audible errors on even a $60 DVD player. DAC technology is mature enough for it to be pretty trivial to implement. Decent analog amp stages can be achieved via opamps for a couple of dollars.

If a unit has been designed to do a job properly fitted out with competent parts and does it properly then its price and provenance are utterly irrelevant.

CD players do differ in terms of technical capabilities but even modest systems have technical capabilities that at least challenge our abilities to tell the difference. For fun , beneath I have listed the specs for 5 CD playing units. One is a Philips DVD player, one is a bog-standard Marantz Cd player, one is an award winning Rotel CD player, one is a highly regarded $2K+ Arcam and one is a $7000 Oracle. First the difference in specs are inaudible and second the price wont help you guess which is which.

Frequency range: 5Hz - 20kHz
Dynamic range: > 96dB
S/N ratio: >104dB
Channel separation: >102dB @ 1 kHz
THD: < 0.0025% at 1kHz

Frequency range 20-20k
Dynamic Range >96dB
S/N ratio: >100dB
Channel separation: >98dB @ 1 kHz
THD < 0.0045% at 1KHz

Frequency range 4Hz- 20kHz
Dynamic range 100 dB
S/N ratio: 105 dB
Channel separation 105 dB @ 1 kHz

Frequency range 5Hz- 20kHz
S/N ratio: 108 dB
Channel separation 80 dB @ 1 kHz
THD < 0.03% at 1KHz

Frequency Range 10Hz - 20kHz
Dynamic range >93dB
Signal to noise ratio 113dB
Harmonic distortion <0.003%
post #23 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shike View Post
Wait, are you saying if you mod something it is no longer what it is?

Excuse me but, what?
I'm trying to point out that if someone was saying the PS1 sounds like garbage, they probabaly meant in stock form and were not suggesting that it does not have potential*. I'm trying to explain that one has to derive what someone meant by the context it's used in. I mean sure, if someone listened to a heavily modded PS1 and said it sounded like garbage, that's one thing, but I doubt that is what was going on.

*But then again, where do you draw the line between what something is and what it has become. On that german site, all that was really left of the PS1 was it's motherboard and optical drive unit. That's not a PS1, anymore, IMO. That's like a custom CD-player with some PS1 parts in it.

It's one thing to upgrade capacitors in a unit to make it better. It's another thing entirely to change the design of something. If you change all the capacitors in the factory PSU to make it run better or the signal decoupling caps in the output stage to make it sound better, fine. But if you entirely bypass the audio stage, change to an entirely different PSU, etc., then it's not fair to say it's a PS1. That would be like someone getting a set of super-powered bionic limbs and saying, "My human body is so naturally strong." I don't think so.
post #24 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by hciman77 View Post
None whatsoever.

Reading the pits and bumps on a CD is trivial, error correction is highly advanced to the point where I generally get zero audible errors on even a $60 DVD player. DAC technology is mature enough for it to be pretty trivial to implement. Decent analog amp stages can be achieved via opamps for a couple of dollars.

If a unit has been designed to do a job properly fitted out with competent parts and does it properly then its price and provenance are utterly irrelevant.

CD players do differ in terms of technical capabilities but even modest systems have technical capabilities that at least challenge our abilities to tell the difference. For fun , beneath I have listed the specs for 5 CD playing units. One is a Philips DVD player, one is a bog-standard Marantz Cd player, one is an award winning Rotel CD player, one is a highly regarded $2K+ Arcam and one is a $7000 Oracle. First the difference in specs are inaudible and second the price wont help you guess which is which.

Frequency range: 5Hz - 20kHz
Dynamic range: > 96dB
S/N ratio: >104dB
Channel separation: >102dB @ 1 kHz
THD: < 0.0025% at 1kHz

Frequency range 20-20k
Dynamic Range >96dB
S/N ratio: >100dB
Channel separation: >98dB @ 1 kHz
THD < 0.0045% at 1KHz

Frequency range 4Hz- 20kHz
Dynamic range 100 dB
S/N ratio: 105 dB
Channel separation 105 dB @ 1 kHz

Frequency range 5Hz- 20kHz
S/N ratio: 108 dB
Channel separation 80 dB @ 1 kHz
THD < 0.03% at 1KHz

Frequency Range 10Hz - 20kHz
Dynamic range >93dB
Signal to noise ratio 113dB
Harmonic distortion <0.003%
If the differences in the specs are not of a magnitude to be audible, but there are audible differences between players (which there clearly are), this just suggests (to me anyway) that the specs don't tell the whole story, in terms of what different players sound like.

I agree that modest CD players may be enough to challenge the ability of some to "tell the difference," just as even a modestly competent wine of a certain vintage would probably be enough would tax my ability to "tell the difference" between different wines, but not everybody has the same perceptive abilities with respect to the various senses.
post #25 of 86
This is so retarded. Why should anyone believe this. Dont get me wrong soon as i heard about it i came a running looking for reasons, not sure why just eager to find out what the hype was. For the amount of modding these psone freaks have done, they could EASILY mod any other CDP and get the same performance. There is not one thing on the psone that explains a hifi sound at any mod level, transport, clock, rcas, nothing. not unless someone got one of those grado pizza box stickers they sell for 200 grand on ebay and played it equilaterally over the laser, i hear this does wonders for spacial seperation, soundstage and detailing.

HUFF!!!

Why do i waste my time reading these threads sometimes :P I should be working!!
post #26 of 86
Oh and comparing it to other "superior sounding" psones isnt going to win it any medals here.
post #27 of 86
I think most people are simply hyped about the fact that you can get a PS1 for free or next to nothing and it doubles as a better-than-bargain-brand CDP and gaming console.
post #28 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logistics View Post
I think most people are simply hyped about the fact that you can get a PS1 for free or next to nothing and it doubles as a better-than-bargain-brand CDP and gaming console.
It's cheap (so are the mods) and the sound signature is very un-digital and it isn't really trying to impress. The sound is relaxed, with a limited top end and pretty bass light. Pretty much like a good turntable...
post #29 of 86
What you guys should do, is get a fully warmed up unit, put it side by side some mid end players, and do an a'b comparison. Imo, this piece of **** will not lose out sonically to anything under a thousand bucks. And its only like what, 5 bucks to 20? Give it a try if you got the time and money, after which if it really turns out that u still think its a piece of crap, just proudly post that u sat down with the unit and compared it with others and still find that its crap.
post #30 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by hciman77 View Post
None whatsoever.

Reading the pits and bumps on a CD is trivial, error correction is highly advanced to the point where I generally get zero audible errors on even a $60 DVD player. DAC technology is mature enough for it to be pretty trivial to implement. Decent analog amp stages can be achieved via opamps for a couple of dollars.

If a unit has been designed to do a job properly fitted out with competent parts and does it properly then its price and provenance are utterly irrelevant........................................ ..........................................
I agree with you to some extent. There are excellent components out there that don't cost an arm and a leg and with clean power supplied to them, they sound as good as units costing 20 times more. (For example, my $200 soundcard>analog outs + my VD power cord to my PC sounds better in 8/10 areas than a $5,500 DAC I listened to.) Most people don't seem to realize how extremely important clean power is.

But the specs you were showing for those products will not help you gauge what the product will sound like. What DAC chips are being used? Buffers? Output stages? Caps? Power supplies? Those are the things we need to know to better get an idea of its sonic signature, assuming the listener has already heard those electronics in other pieces of gear.
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