Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) › Are your cables as expensive as your system?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Are your cables as expensive as your system? - Page 3

post #31 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Kang View Post
With 1600 you can get an electrician to run dedicated lines for your audio and have money left over for a decent source.
THAT is a good advice!!
post #32 of 67
Quote:
With 1600 you can get an electrician to run dedicated lines for your audio
I agree. This is what I have seen done and works when you have had electrical problems that cannot be overcome by traditional power filtering.
post #33 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitesymphony View Post
You could sell the amplifier, save the money from the cost of the power cord, and buy something even better-sounding for the $3,200 you'll have.
That would be my plan. All my cables were bought used and when added up make up only a very small chunk of all the gear I own. Sure one power cord costs more than one headphone, but it is plugged into the equipment that will benefit ALL my headphones and speakers.

In the end, make sure you have everything equipment wise you've ever wanted before upgrading the cables.
post #34 of 67
I use stock power cords but do think about better ones. I don't yet understand how a different power cord is supposed to sound different, but believe it does. I want to make one with nice plugs and cable.

Just a thought: If you spend thousands on an amp, some of that money is going towards high quality internal wiring / PCB traces / transformers / the pieces of metal that move electricity around. Aren't power cords and interconnects in the same boat? Whats the difference if they are on the outside of the box? Wouldn't you want the same high quality?
post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenkelby View Post

Just a thought: If you spend thousands on an amp, some of that money is going towards high quality internal wiring / PCB traces / transformers / the pieces of metal that move electricity around. Aren't power cords and interconnects in the same boat?
No, from what I understand they are not.Due to the construction of the power supply (e.g. the reservoir caps) the amp is to a large extent isolated from the quality of the cables outside.
Naturally not all amps are created equal in this regard, but just plug your Rudistor off and you'll hear the music still playing for a few seconds until the SQ deteriorates.Otherwise you'd have to worry about the crappy cables inside your walls and the even crappier cables to the next transformer station.
IME any decent cable will do the trick but obviously opinions differ.Quality connectors and shielding or some ferrite rings are surely reasonable.
There's nothing wrong with purchasing extremely expensive power cords though.It stimulates the economy and that's good for all of us.
post #36 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmopragma View Post
No, from what I understand they are not.Due to the construction of the power supply (e.g. the reservoir caps) the amp is somewhat isolated from the quality of the cables outside.
Naturally not all amps are created equal in this regard, but just plug your Rudistor off and you'll hear that the music still plays for a few seconds until the SQ deteriorates.Otherwise you'd have to worry about the crappy cables inside your walls and the even crappier cables to the next transformer station.
Yeah that makes sense about the wires in the walls. Thats what I don't understand about people claiming power cables make a difference. The Rudi plays for ages after power off, I noticed that. Hopefully I get the chance to listen with a home made decent power cable for myself.
post #37 of 67
I'm gonna get in trouble for this one.

I have a dedicated line from my fuse box which is in the basement and maybe 6 feet from my electrical outlet in my listening area which is almost directly above. There are two other outlets connected to this line but they come after the sound system. And only one outlet is ever used. That for a 75 watt lamp next to my chair.

Here's the kicker. My sound quality improves when I turn off that lamp! It becomes less fuzzy and much tighter. Mind you this is for my MAD Ear+ Purist HD. My beta 22 will be here soon and it has a much better power supply so we'll see. I expect it won't make much difference. But for some amps, clean electricity can make a huge difference.

Yes, I believe in quality power cords. BUT I have maybe $3500 in my amp and source and $200 in used Audiomagic cords. My interconnects are a couple of steps above rat shack and cost $200. But I've tried many (admittedly nothing over $200 each) and find one doesn't need to spend big bucks on power cords and interconnects. You just need the right synergy. That takes time and experimentation, not necessarily money.

Yes, they make a difference and sometimes quite large. But spend an equal amount for them as for an amp? Nah...
post #38 of 67
No, I am not an idiot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
The improvement from Vishnu ($660) to Valhalla ($3000) was much bigger than stock to Vishnu.

I get better sound with Benchmark DAC1 ($975) + Valhalla than Cary 303/300 ($4000) + Vishnu. It's probably because the cheaper DAC is more sensitive to tweaks. The more expensive the gear is, the harder it is to change the sound.

With the same tweaks, DAC1 sounds better than Cary 303/300. Without any tweaks Cary sounds better. So in my experience, the more you spend on electronics the worse sound you get, because the tweaks aren't as effective then. If you want to hear a certain flavor of sound, cheap electronics + tweaks is the way to go.

I hear a bigger difference replacing the power cord for the computer than for my CD transport, because there is more jitter to begin with. If you don't have any jitter, it is harder to change the flavor.
Holy crap your an idiot.
post #39 of 67
If you add a different thickness power cord after the apartment wiring it will make it sound less neutral, but the flavor may sound better to you. If you keep mixing different thicknesses of power cords it will sound messed up.

When I bypassed the power conditioner and plugged everything to the wall it sounded cleaner, it was more relaxing to listen to because there wasn't a mixture of wire thicknesses in the signal path. The Premier Power Plant has 10awg wiring from the regenerator to the Quintet on the back, and the Quintet has thick copper bars. I could hear the mixture and it sounded like a mess. But the Premier also cleans AC noise so I got more low-level detail.

If you are going to mix different thicknesses, use as short power cord as possible.
Based on my experiments, it's better to put the thicker power cord before the thinner one. So you make the signal path thinner and thinner. I have modified my Valhalla power cords thinner (16awg) than the apartment wiring (14?) and I get more low-level detail.

The power cord that made the biggest difference was PS Audio xStream Statement 6awg. It removed EMI because of the shielding, but it also made everything slower and muddier which gave the illusion of bigger bass. Since it was a lot thicker than the apartment wiring, it removed a lot of detail. The bass signature was very easy to hear.

So if you want the most low-level detail you need to use the same thickness as the apartment wiring. You also need the same brand to get a consistent sound. And then you need to wrap them all in ERS Paper. It's going to sound better than aftermarket power cords unless you like the flavor of them.

I like the flavor of Valhalla power cord because it makes it sound smooth and open which gives the illusion of transparency and bigger soundstage. The longer the Valhalla is the more of that coloration I could hear. All aftermarket cables make it worse than the neutral apartment wiring. Its all about the flavors. Cheaper electronics have worse power supplies and they are more sensitive to different flavor of AC power. If you like how a power cord sounds, it is better to spend money on it than more expensive electronics.

I like Benchmark DAC1 because it has more brightness and has a narrower soundstage than other DACs. But since the Valhalla gives smooth and open sound with a huge soundstage, it's a perfect match. I don't think there's a better match for transparency.
post #40 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd View Post
No, I am not an idiot.
Holy crap your an idiot.
You look like an idiot, if you ask me, mister attention whoring Duggeh wannabe.
okthanksbye.
post #41 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunyata View Post
You look like an idiot, if you ask me, mister attention whoring Duggeh wannabe.
okthanksbye.
Ha!

And no, my cables cost <5% of the rest of my system. I plan to keep it that way, too.
post #42 of 67
Quote:
Holy crap your an idiot.
What's with the name calling, because someone has a different opinion than you? At least Patrick explained his stance.

P.S. If you are going to call someone an idiot. Do it right. It is you're
post #43 of 67
Just want to say that I'm very glad that I don't have the $$ to try all these wild and wacky theories myself.

Here's my growing take on cables. Some people claim that cables can't make the system better or worse, but I think that they put constraints on a system. The perfect cable with perfect conduction, infinite resistance dielectric (that costs infinite $$ ) will allow you to properly evaluate the rest of your components. The perfect cable won't make the iMod sound any better than an iMod can, but a less than perfect cable may make the source sound less than its best.

That's the funny thing about cables. So any level of system in theory can benefit from the perfect cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pageman99 View Post
I'm gonna get in trouble for this one.

I have a dedicated line from my fuse box which is in the basement and maybe 6 feet from my electrical outlet in my listening area which is almost directly above. There are two other outlets connected to this line but they come after the sound system. And only one outlet is ever used. That for a 75 watt lamp next to my chair.

Here's the kicker. My sound quality improves when I turn off that lamp! It becomes less fuzzy and much tighter. Mind you this is for my MAD Ear+ Purist HD. My beta 22 will be here soon and it has a much better power supply so we'll see. I expect it won't make much difference. But for some amps, clean electricity can make a huge difference.

Yes, I believe in quality power cords. BUT I have maybe $3500 in my amp and source and $200 in used Audiomagic cords. My interconnects are a couple of steps above rat shack and cost $200. But I've tried many (admittedly nothing over $200 each) and find one doesn't need to spend big bucks on power cords and interconnects. You just need the right synergy. That takes time and experimentation, not necessarily money.

Yes, they make a difference and sometimes quite large. But spend an equal amount for them as for an amp? Nah...
I think that the plausible explanation is simply the amount of current through the lamp is competing with the rest of your circuit. If it's after but still in series with your audio circuit, the presumably it "sees" the audio circuit before the current source, so perhaps its effect would be greater. I'm all about having you test stuff today, so I'd love for you to find a way to switch the order of the lamp and the audio circuit and see if the lamp "on" before your gear shows an improvement over your current setup.

If it's a headphone rig this is easy enough to do, right??

post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunyata View Post
You look like an idiot, if you ask me, mister attention whoring Duggeh wannabe.
okthanksbye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meat01 View Post
What's with the name calling, because someone has a different opinion than you? At least Patrick explained his stance.

P.S. If you are going to call someone an idiot. Do it right. It is you're

WTH? How many ppl actually believe the B.S. that comes out of patrick's mouth.

Those of you who believe it are the True Audiophiles
post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd View Post
WTH? How many ppl actually believe the B.S. that comes out of patrick's mouth.

Those of you who believe it are the True Audiophiles
It doesn't matter who I believe, it's you calling people "an idiot" that is the problem. Who are you to judge other people's beliefs and opinions?

And don't give me that fight the man, rebel shiet, thinking you are arguing with some old "Audiophile" that you can just roll your little eyes to because you think you are young and wise, and "street smart."
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) › Are your cables as expensive as your system?