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Re: Michael Vick Hysteria

post #1 of 56
7/19/07 at 1:39am
Thread Starter 
In just a span of a day these alleged charges against Michael Vick has prompted such a massive, widespread outcry of condemnation from news media, television outlets, and even members of specialized internet forums like this one, for the act and the person(s) who supposedly committed or was (were) involved in these heinous acts. And while I'm unabashed in my disapproval of what happened to these dogs, and others involved in dog fighting, my vision is, at the same time, clear enough to see through the heavy smoke of the pseudo-moral opprobrium concerning this incident.

I cannot recall a recent incident like this one involving such strong reproach of one act and blind acceptance of another. How is dog fighting any different from other "sports"? Hunting? Bullfighting? Where is the outrage over these plain view, accepted acts? To me, these so-called sports are even worse than dog fighting. How is Dick Cheney and John Kerry and the scores of politicians/celebrities/everyday people who hunt different from Michael Vick?

To me, a dog or cat or any other animal we (myself included) domesticate is no different from a deer or bird or a bull in terms of ethical treatment. I'm not advocating vegetarianism or the like, but it seems that if people are concerned about ethical treatment of "protected" animals like dogs, why cannot the same treatment extend to those that are not used for consumption purposes. Why should I not feel different about a person or group of people going into the woods to shoot and kill a deer for "fun"? Maybe
those involved in dog fighting want to have "fun" as well.

That's why I remain cynical about the hysteria over dog fighting. I guess this would be an entirely different issue if 47 states, like what was proposed in Wisconsin a few years ago, allowed dog hunting. Maybe the legality of the sport would lessen the outrage? Right? Right...?
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post #2 of 56
7/19/07 at 1:43am
hunting != fighting
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post #3 of 56
7/19/07 at 1:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtevol1 View Post
In just a span of a day these alleged charges against Michael Vick has prompted such a massive, widespread outcry of condemnation from news media, television outlets, and even members of specialized internet forums like this one, for the act and the person(s) who supposedly committed or was (were) involved in these heinous acts. And while I'm unabashed in my disapproval of what happened to these dogs, and others involved in dog fighting, my vision is, at the same time, clear enough to see through the heavy smoke of the pseudo-moral opprobrium concerning this incident.

I cannot recall a recent incident like this one involving such strong reproach of one act and blind acceptance of another. How is dog fighting any different from other "sports"? Hunting? Bullfighting? Where is the outrage over these plain view, accepted acts? To me, these so-called sports are even worse than dog fighting. How is Dick Cheney and John Kerry and the scores of politicians/celebrities/everyday people who hunt different from Michael Vick?

To me, a dog or cat or any other animal we (myself included) domesticate is no different from a deer or bird or a bull in terms of ethical treatment. I'm not advocating vegetarianism or the like, but it seems that if people are concerned about ethical treatment of "protected" animals like dogs, why cannot the same treatment extend to those that are not used for consumption purposes. Why should I not feel different about a person or group of people going into the woods to shoot and kill a deer for "fun"? Maybe
those involved in dog fighting want to have "fun" as well.

That's why I remain cynical about the hysteria over dog fighting. I guess this would be an entirely different issue if 47 states, like what was proposed in Wisconsin a few years ago, allowed dog hunting. Maybe the legality of the sport would lessen the outrage? Right? Right...?


Hunting for sport should be outlawed just as much, and bullfighting also. If you eat what you kill/fish, then that's different, life feeds on life after all.

BTW, if this is what you meant by your comment on hypocrites in the other thread, then excuse my response, because I agree with you on this. I would say, however, that I don't imagine most of the outraged opinions on dogfighting being in favor of sport hunting or bullfighting, but that's just my guess.
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post #4 of 56
7/19/07 at 1:57am
It's a cultural thing.
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post #5 of 56
7/19/07 at 1:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assorted View Post
It's a cultural thing.
Dogfighting or hunting? If you mean dogfighting, then I guess it's a sub-culture of a bigger "cultural" thing.
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post #6 of 56
7/19/07 at 2:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeAmEye View Post
Hunting for sport should be outlawed just as much, and bullfighting also. If you eat what you kill/fish, then that's different, life feeds on life after all.
Most hunting, sport or otherwise, preforms the necessary task of culling animal herds, since humans have managed to royally screw up predator/prey relationships by exterminating most natural predators. If hunters didn't do it on foot, then wildlife and game officials would do it by helo and silenced rifles. Same result, except one provides food and enjoyment for a lot of Americans.

Also, sport hunting pays the bills. If there were no sport hunting, you can kiss conservation efforts in third world countries bye bye. You may not like the killing of animals, but without it, most African natural game preserves would have vanished long ago. Sure, the hunters aren't 100% altruistic, but their results by far surpass anything that PETA's been able to do.

/Not a hunter.
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post #7 of 56
7/19/07 at 2:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtevol1 View Post
In just a span of a day these alleged charges against Michael Vick has prompted such a massive, widespread outcry of condemnation from news media, television outlets, and even members of specialized internet forums like this one, for the act and the person(s) who supposedly committed or was (were) involved in these heinous acts. And while I'm unabashed in my disapproval of what happened to these dogs, and others involved in dog fighting, my vision is, at the same time, clear enough to see through the heavy smoke of the pseudo-moral opprobrium concerning this incident.

I cannot recall a recent incident like this one involving such strong reproach of one act and blind acceptance of another. How is dog fighting any different from other "sports"? Hunting? Bullfighting? Where is the outrage over these plain view, accepted acts? To me, these so-called sports are even worse than dog fighting. How is Dick Cheney and John Kerry and the scores of politicians/celebrities/everyday people who hunt different from Michael Vick?

To me, a dog or cat or any other animal we (myself included) domesticate is no different from a deer or bird or a bull in terms of ethical treatment. I'm not advocating vegetarianism or the like, but it seems that if people are concerned about ethical treatment of "protected" animals like dogs, why cannot the same treatment extend to those that are not used for consumption purposes. Why should I not feel different about a person or group of people going into the woods to shoot and kill a deer for "fun"? Maybe
those involved in dog fighting want to have "fun" as well.

That's why I remain cynical about the hysteria over dog fighting. I guess this would be an entirely different issue if 47 states, like what was proposed in Wisconsin a few years ago, allowed dog hunting. Maybe the legality of the sport would lessen the outrage? Right? Right...?
There is a difference between hunting & fighting.. But yes..Hunting bothers me too.. & Bullfighting is awful & inhumane.. But the dog fighting incident is just too savage to go away..'rape polls' for overly aggressive female pits. Throwing kittens into the ring for the 'fun' of it. These dogs are malnurished, tortured & killed.. When a dog loses that dog is killed.. Either drowning, hanging, slamming the dog into the ground..Sad thing is, even when rescued most will have to be put down cause they were trained to be aggressive killers. & also.. This country has a great love for animals. Dogs in general. Ala, mans best friend..
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post #8 of 56
7/19/07 at 2:32am
Thread Starter 
Yes, there is a difference. Hunting, to me, is worse--they're actually killed. What's worse than gunshot death?
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post #9 of 56
7/19/07 at 2:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtevol1 View Post
Yes, there is a difference. Hunting, to me, is worse--they're actually killed. What's worse than gunshot death?
Knowing that your ruthless owner is going to kill you and actually watching him do so.
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post #10 of 56
7/19/07 at 2:39am
Thread Starter 
Or seeing a pack of ruthless gleeful non-acquaintances aiming a gun at you. How humane, right?
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post #11 of 56
7/19/07 at 2:39am
Dogs and Cats are "members of the family" to lot's of people, a lot more then Cows, chickens, Dinosaurs, Zepekancas, etc. So people feel close to these Animals more then any other cause they grew up with them or close to them all over this Country. So when ever some hurts or harms a Dog or cat then "off with their head" cause everyone feels so Attached to these animals.

I love dog's like no other but when it comes to the wild breed of dogs (pit bulls, rottweilers, etc) I have no problem with them being Gamed out in fights..
cause unlike a bull for example the only reason why these dogs were bred and kept being bred was for purpose's like fighting or at least something close to this.

again it's a culture thing like in Mexico with bull fights or where they do the Running of the bulls..I guess its a deep south thing in this country where dog fighting is as legit as a $1 coin. so if you grew up in an area where they do this normally you would say "whats the big deal" but if you grew up in a area without you'll be like "omg no not those poor little doggies".

kind of like how Chickens are kept, if the chicken is useless to the Farm then it dies and becomes food asap, but people say "nooo no the chickens" but then people that grew up around these parts think "it was born to be a product..nothing else"..which by the looks of things is sort of how Vicky Vicky your so fine looked at his Product, when the product could not make him money then the product was Dead..after all what kind of business keeps around unprofitable products?

I personally believe humans in our form are not Greater then any other Living and Breathing object on this earth besides our thumbs and our stupidity. I myself don't hurt animals (if uncalled for) and don't destroy trees for fun neither..but just because I live my life like that does not mean I have to push it down every dick and john on a headphone forum neither. i see where people that fight dogs could come from, I see or try to see their Side, again just because I don't agree with it does not make it wrong in my mind..
I do believe if you hurt something of mother nature Karma will come..at least that's what keeps me strait..
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post #12 of 56
7/19/07 at 2:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhd812 View Post
but just because I live my life like that does not mean I have to push it down every dick and john on a headphone forum neither. i see where people that fight dogs could come from, I see or try to see their Side, again just because I don't agree with it does not make it wrong in my mind..
I do believe if you hurt something of mother nature Karma will come..at least that's what keeps me strait..
I don't agree that I'm trying to "push" anything. My reason for posting is to diffuse some of the outrage over this incident by pointing out that there are similar, very parallel acts to this one, yet we never get a "Hunting Is Wrong" or "Hunters Should Be Hunted" threads. By the way, are the people disapproving of dog fighting, and incidentally the person who started the thread about the news report on Vick, "push[ing] it down every dick and john on a headphone forum..."? No mention of that.
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post #13 of 56
7/19/07 at 2:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhd812 View Post
I love dog's like no other but when it comes to the wild breed of dogs (pit bulls, rottweilers, etc) I have no problem with them being Gamed out in fights..
cause unlike a bull for example the only reason why these dogs were bred and kept being bred was for purpose's like fighting or at least something close to this.

again it's a culture thing like in Mexico with bull fights or where they do the Running of the bulls..I guess its a deep south thing in this country where dog fighting is as legit as a $1 coin. so if you grew up in an area where they do this normally you would say "whats the big deal" but if you grew up in a area without you'll be like "omg no not those poor little doggies".

As an owner of a pit bull, your first opinion is patently wrong, and I'm certain any other owner of the same breed or similar that isn't ignorant and callous enough to raise them to fight will share in my sentiment. Just because pricks like Mike Vick raise them for this purpose does not make the entire breed good for that alone, but no matter how many times this type of argument comes up, the same canned, media driven drivel bubbles to the surface.

As to the bullfighting or dog fighting being a "cultural" thing, if I'm not mistaken, their was this "cultural" thing in certain cultures where a wife would jump atop her husband's funeral pyre, is that ok, too, because it's a "cultural" thing?
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post #14 of 56
7/19/07 at 3:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtevol1 View Post
Or seeing a pack of ruthless gleeful non-acquaintances aiming a gun at you. How humane, right?
Yes, because there's no difference between years of torture and abuse by your master followed by execution and living with plenty of food and no predators until a reasonably clean death. Lots of things are worse than death.

Compared to the lives of many in cultures where dog fighting is normal, a bit of animal cruelty is a drop in the bucket and consequently, no big deal.
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post #15 of 56
7/19/07 at 3:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeAmEye View Post
As an owner of a pit bull, your first opinion is patently wrong,

As to the bullfighting or dog fighting being a "cultural" thing, if I'm not mistaken, their was this "cultural" thing in certain cultures where a wife would jump atop her husband's funeral pyre, is that ok, too, because it's a "cultural" thing?

Oye a pit bull owner huh? no wonder why your all worked up..

Read the wiki of a pit bull, its a dog yes..but its the traits it has within its breed that makes it more dangerous then other dogs..when a pit bull goes bad..it goes Bad!

To me you own nothing more then a caged lion, tame it is now but at any moment if and when something wrong happens you will not stop that animal easily. this is why they are bred to fight, they are fighters. they are killers Especially when they are Raised by ******** like Vicky Do-hicky

again I love all dogs and I know a few close friends that have them (search my bhd812 name and pitbull for a ugly moment as a dog lover i had to see regarding a pitbull), Whenever I am around one I will show it all the love in the world..after all that's the only point it lives as a dog but I am also on guard just in case this mofo does something..I never let my face around any of my friends dogs nor do i let my neck, balls and other cute parts of me. Also "when" I have kids (when is the word) I promise I will never let an unleashed Pitbull go within 10 feet of my kid..if it does then the owner gets a warning if that don't work my kid leaves asap..if that cant happen then I will have no regret killing that Dog before it has a single micro thought of hurting my child (again this is "when" i have a kid),

anyway..PitBulls Are not so much the point of this thread..and their have been plently of Pit this and pit that threads..

to answer your second question..yeah cultural man..look what people in other countries do or how they live..start in Iraq then move on to others..weird and wrong to us maybe but still..its cultural
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