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Stax Sigma Low Bais and Stax Sigma Pros - Page 12

post #166 of 472
I should get my SRD-X before the weekend so there will be some impressions during the holidays.

My T1 is a very large step above the T1W but I just bought another standard T1 so I can compare them directly.
post #167 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
I had a crossfeed set-up years ago, before I owned Sigmas so I can't say I have tried it with them. Although I did have Jecklins at the time. I rarely used the crossfeed. There were a very small number of stereo recordings with bizarre stereo images because of too much seperation which one could use it on but mostly I prefered as much channel separation as I could get.

Blending channels by crossfeed will have reduce channel separation and thus bring the apparent positions of sounds sources, that are to the left and right, closer to the center. I see no reason why this should make sounds appear more externalized. Rather the effect would be more likely to change the perceived distance from the sources. I.e. the greater the perceived lateral distance between two or more sound sources in space, the closer you would be to those sources. So if you are sitting close between 2 performers, one would be in your left ear and one in your right.

I find there is a misconception in some of these forums that crossfeed in phones will produce a more "relatistic" stereo image because it mimics the crossfeed from speakers where the each channel's signal goes to both ears However, the left-speaker-to-right-ear and right-speaker-to- left-ear-signals are artifacts, having no correspondance to what is recorded in 2 channel stereo, or presented to your two ears if you were actually listening to performers in real space.

Eg. The left microphone or your left ear will already get some signal from all directions and that will be all in the left channel signal. When played through loudspeakers you are creating a double dose of blend because the recorded signal is now going to the right ear, after a small time delay. That delayed signal is the artifact sometimes referred to as a "phantom channel." Speakers that try to suppress these phantoms, such as Polk's old SDA system have much more precise localization and better imaging as you can tell with these speakers simply by switching off the suppression set-up.

Because there is little leakage between left and right headphone transducers even with the Sigmas, headphones don't have a phantom image problem, and give a far more accurate stereo image than speakers can ever hope to.
I know this is an old post, but I have to say I agree with you.

Because of this, 90% of my music listening is with headphones, the other 10% is through my 20 year old Polk SDA CRS in 2 channel mode.
post #168 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottsmrnyc View Post
Hey everyone I took delivery of the SRD X Pro and about a couple of years ago I was able to purchase a SRD X non pro. I must admit that I was surprised how well both the SRD X Pro and SRD X non pro worked with a pair of Stax Sigma Pros and a pair of Stax Sigma non pros. Whether using both portable adapters on 8 batteries or through their adapters, I am reporting that the sound was close to as good as when I use my SRD 12 S or my srm007t. I know this sounds a little impossible, but I did the test twice with the plug in adapter and with durcell batteries. I was very impressed. I wonder what would happen if I took them out onto the streets of NYC. I guess with the weather being cold, this would not be a good idea. I will have to wait till the spring and or summer to do this. But within my apt, where it is far more quiet, the results were impressive; this is only my humble non technical opinion.
Has anyone ever done a similar test?? What do you think?
Enjoy Scottsmrnyc
My SRD-X non-pro driving my SR-Lambdas does a very good job. I feed my optical out from CD or iRiver H140, to iBasso D1 DAC to DarkVoice 336i tube amp to SRD-X via headphone jack. SRD-X is hooked to 12v DC wallwart with 1000ma capability, but even with 8 batteries it does well.

I did buy recently an SRM-1 Mk2 Pro that is coming from Switzerland, so I can see if I get even better sound. I'll use the SRM-1 Mk2 to drive the Gamma Pro I have coming from Spritzer. And, maybe I might buy Lambda Pro or Lambda Signatures later. I'll have to try sigmas I think before I take the leap.

I'll be able to compare the SRD-X and SRM-1 Mk2 directly once I get everything here, and I'll report back then.
post #169 of 472
looking forward to hearing about the comparisons Larry
post #170 of 472
I have been listening almost exclusively for the last few weeks to Sigma pros. either the basic Sigma pro run off a Stax SRM3 amp or the Sigma/404 run off the Stax 717 amp. I finally shifted back to the Lambda Nova and Lambda 404 and I was really struck by the way the sound field seems to collapse on the Lambdas after listening to the Sigmas. With the Sigmas you get sense of depth of the soundfield. With the Lambdas it seems very 2 dimensional. Also the Sigmas bring out the ambience in the signal, a very good thing if the recordng is somewhat dry, as most are. Admittedly there are some overly reverberant recordings that may sound better with a conventional design, but in my experience, not too many.


This is what really sets the Sigma part from all other phones except possibly the similarly built AKG 1000(?). I have seen some comments that the Omega can give a sense of depth but I don't see how, because while it is of high quality it is still of conventional design with the transducers mounted sideways.
post #171 of 472
It's somewhat irksome that I still haven't heard either the Sigma or Omega, it seems nobody around here has them. I'd love a listen just so I know.
post #172 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeggy View Post
It's somewhat irksome that I still haven't heard either the Sigma or Omega, it seems nobody around here has them. I'd love a listen just so I know.
Same here!
I have never heard the Sigma or Omega (SR-Omega I presume). As a Stax'oholic thats quite annoying...
post #173 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
This is what really sets the Sigma part from all other phones except possibly the similarly built AKG 1000(?). I have seen some comments that the Omega can give a sense of depth but I don't see how, because while it is of high quality it is still of conventional design with the transducers mounted sideways.
The Omegas is much better at sound staging then the Sigma could ever even dream about. While the Sigma idea is great it is the housing that lets it down so while you get this great ambiance it simply isn't precise enough to do layering like the SR-007 can. Even many performers deep and all with in a very tightly controlled soundstage. The Sigmas have a wall of diffused sound while the Sr-007 is a much smaller window but it is very clear indeed... You really owe it to your self to hear an SR-007 with a Blue Hawaii.

Although the SR-007 isn't perpendicular to the head it uses the ear to mimic that by placing the driver further away. It's a neat trick but it must have taken a lot of work to design the earpads... The same earpads make a mess of the SR-X by creating internal reflections and other nastiness.
post #174 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

Although the SR-007 isn't perpendicular to the head it uses the ear to mimic that by placing the driver further away. It's a neat trick but it must have taken a lot of work to design the earpads... The same earpads make a mess of the SR-X by creating internal reflections and other nastiness.
I thoroughly dispute that. The Omega pads on the SR-X has transformed them into something wonderful. Also, when the pads are tapered back to front, the pad interior is crinkled, folded and uneven and your ear fill most of the cavity, how can internal reflections even be an issue? The liner cloth will also diffuse any stuff that may bounce.

The SR-X sounds better with the Omega pads than with their own or the SR-5 pads. You may not like the sound of this combination but saying it is a mess is totally wrong in my view. I've done a *lot* of experimenting with the SR-X and this is far and away the best I've heard them. They are more airy, the bass is better and the details are presented in a more relaxed manner and it just sounds better for me, and that's what counts
post #175 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeggy View Post
It's somewhat irksome that I still haven't heard either the Sigma or Omega, it seems nobody around here has them. I'd love a listen just so I know.
From my experience the Sigmas are a bit amp picky compared to both Lambdas and the OII, they seem to do their thing with the KGSS though.
post #176 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeggy View Post
I thoroughly dispute that. The Omega pads on the SR-X has transformed them into something wonderful. Also, when the pads are tapered back to front, the pad interior is crinkled, folded and uneven and your ear fill most of the cavity, how can internal reflections even be an issue? The liner cloth will also diffuse any stuff that may bounce.

The SR-X sounds better with the Omega pads than with their own or the SR-5 pads. You may not like the sound of this combination but saying it is a mess is totally wrong in my view. I've done a *lot* of experimenting with the SR-X and this is far and away the best I've heard them. They are more airy, the bass is better and the details are presented in a more relaxed manner and it just sounds better for me, and that's what counts
You are drastically altering the load on the driver so it has nothing to do with reflections but how a dipole behaves and how each side affects the other. Sealing the baffle tight does help here but they still sound "off". I know I'm overly picky so it could be just that... I do thoroughly agree with you on the Gamma arc assembly as I'm never going back to the SR-X one but I just wish the Gamma unit was larger.
post #177 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post
You are drastically altering the load on the driver so it has nothing to do with reflections but how a dipole behaves and how each side affects the other. Sealing the baffle tight does help here but they still sound "off". I know I'm overly picky so it could be just that... I do thoroughly agree with you on the Gamma arc assembly as I'm never going back to the SR-X one but I just wish the Gamma unit was larger.
Essentially it's like putting 404 drivers into a Sigma housing, it doesn't screw up the sound, just alters it in ways many find more pleasing. The extra internal air volume (well sealed) gives a more relaxed, wider and more believable sound to me. As you know, the same drivers were used in a number of configurations of housing, damping and loading with the Gamma, SR-5 and SR-X. All sound differently and are loaded differently so it's not like the drivers were only for one specific housing/pad design. This is one more configuration that I feel works exceptionally well. I guess some of it could be down to how the pads are mounted and how well sealed, but they do sound amazing.

I have barely taken them off since I figured out which mounting setup worked best. It doesn't take much to throw the sonics off if it's wrong or not sealing properly. I made a couple of adapter rings to try. Experimented with mounting and positioning etc. I took great care in position, sealing and getting the pad rotation just right. Of course it's not going to suit everyone and that's fine, that's not why I did it. And I'm not finished with it yet, I have plans to take the mount in another direction which I feel will work even better.
post #178 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeggy View Post
Essentially it's like putting 404 drivers into a Sigma housing, it doesn't screw up the sound, just alters it in ways many find more pleasing. The extra internal air volume (well sealed) gives a more relaxed, wider and more believable sound to me. As you know, the same drivers were used in a number of configurations of housing, damping and loading with the Gamma, SR-5 and SR-X. All sound differently and are loaded differently so it's not like the drivers were only for one specific housing/pad design. This is one more configuration that I feel works exceptionally well. I guess some of it could be down to how the pads are mounted and how well sealed, but they do sound amazing.

I have barely taken them off since I figured out which mounting setup worked best. It doesn't take much to throw the sonics off if it's wrong or not sealing properly. I made a couple of adapter rings to try. Experimented with mounting and positioning etc. I took great care in position, sealing and getting the pad rotation just right. Of course it's not going to suit everyone and that's fine, that's not why I did it. And I'm not finished with it yet, I have plans to take the mount in another direction which I feel will work even better.
The 404 sigma sounds better because the 404 driver is much, much better then the 1um Pro driver or the 2um normal driver. That is clear once you hear the SR-SC1 or the 4070.

Even though the Gamma, SR-# and SR-x look different, with different pads they are all pretty much the same. The drivers are mounted at the same distance and all share the same sealed baffle but the SR-X sounds best as it has the best build quality.

I mounted the pads to a specially cut wooden plates and sealed the baffle tight and while it impressed me at first it got tiresome. I might try again with some SR-Omega pads as I have some excess stock...
post #179 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post
The 404 sigma sounds better because the 404 driver is much, much better then the 1um Pro driver or the 2um normal driver. That is clear once you hear the SR-SC1 or the 4070.

Even though the Gamma, SR-# and SR-x look different, with different pads they are all pretty much the same. The drivers are mounted at the same distance and all share the same sealed baffle but the SR-X sounds best as it has the best build quality.

I mounted the pads to a specially cut wooden plates and sealed the baffle tight and while it impressed me at first it got tiresome. I might try again with some SR-Omega pads as I have some excess stock...
Actually the distance from the ear isn't that much different than standard, mostly it's the added internal volume of the O2 pads I think make the biggest difference though I'm not certain. The tips of my ears touch the inside of the housing at the back and the pads angle the drivers so the alignment is fairly close to that of the supra aural fit of the original. There is more distance at the front and that difference is smaller than you may think. Try placing the pads over your ears and see how close the liner is to your ears. The backs of my ears are about the same depth as the pads or a little bigger.

Best of all, the mods are easily reversible as the silver endcaps with pads are removed before mounting the Omega pads on their ring plate and will slip right back on if the mounting plate is removed. The new housing holes are blind drilled so they are still closed to the outside if the gamma headband is removed. In the unlikely event they do become tiresome it's very simple to revert back to normal, though I don't see that happening.

It's been a lot of fun playing around to see what can be done with the SR-X, I just hope I don't eventually break something
post #180 of 472
Thread Starter 
Hey all Just checking in to say- Happy Holidays, etc. Enjoy Peace on Earth. Scottsmrnyc
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