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Hearing damage - IEM's vs full size cans - Page 2

post #16 of 29
7/11/07 at 1:20pm
what about earbuds like the kind yuin makes? do they cause more hearing damage than over the ear types?

There isnt the same seal made in the canal, but the sound waves are still piped directly into the ear canal, and dont get to bounce their way in naturally...
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post #17 of 29
7/11/07 at 1:39pm
If I listen my er6i more than 1 hour, I would have a feeling that ther is a hole between my ears.
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post #18 of 29
7/11/07 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericj View Post
NERD ALERT!
i actually despise harry potter.

and last time i checked, ordering tubes from holland for you amp at home for your balanced headphones connected to a turntable that cost more than some peoples cars might make you more of a nerd.

plus i found out last night that in addition to loving headphones, most of us are computer gurus as well.

i love this forum.
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post #19 of 29
7/11/07 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazic View Post
IEMs only move 1/1000th of an inch so sound pressure would not be causing any damage. Its found here on Shure's site.

On the go IEMs are better for your ears than regular headphones especially if outside noise is taken into account. Sound isolating IEMs will obviously isolate outside sound which means lower volumes whereas, headphone will need to be louder to counter the outside sound interuptions and not to forget to mention possibly disturb others. For at home listening its debatable due to less outside noise interfering. But who would listen to IEMs when you have a Grado sitting there getting cold?
I read that in a study as well about IEMs. The IEMs do isolate sound, so you are more likely to use your Ipod or MP3 player at a lower volume, instead of increasing it if you were using open type cans to isolate the sound around you. Even sealed cans don't isolate as well as IEMs. I still like listening to my Grados though too
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post #20 of 29
7/11/07 at 6:16pm
IMO it is apr the same..
To let you hear the music at the same volumen you put just as much pressure on your eardrums, otherwise it would not be the same volumen..

But my vote goes for IEM because I use them to protect my hearing at work and if I play them so that I can still hear the machinery, I will be getting apr. 20 DB less noise in the ears..
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post #21 of 29
7/11/07 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post
I would say IEM simply because you can't use an SPL meter to find out what db level you are listening at.

So, you have to listen at a reasonably low level to make sure you aren't over the damage limit.
I've used an SPL meter to measure the db level of my UM1. I'm not sure how accurate my method was, but it sounds similar to the same measured levels with full size cans. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...&postcount=102
BTW, for those interested, this thread also shows Skylab's method for measuring full sized cans. I bought my SPL meter near work and measured the background noise on my commute home that night. The noise on DC's Metro was 85-95dBs with peaks up to 120dBs. If I didn't have isolating IEMs to wear on my commute, I'd probably be wearing ear plugs after seeing how load the trains are.

My IEMs sound better than the isolating full sized cans that I've heard, but in quiet environments, I'll almost any of my open cans over my IEMs.

To those who have problems with IEMs hurting, is it really the sound that hurts or is it the pressure on the ear canal from tips that are too big or made from a material that irritates your ear canal. I know this is what causes pain for me with triflanges or foam tips that are too big. With a proper fit, I have worn my IEMs for up to 7 hours on flights.

Also opening your mouth and lifting your ear lobe while inserting them helps to relieve some of the pressure on your ear drum.
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post #22 of 29
7/11/07 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scompton View Post
I've used an SPL meter to measure the db level of my UM1. I'm not sure how accurate my method was, but it sounds similar to the same measured levels with full size cans. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...&postcount=102
BTW, for those interested, this thread also shows Skylab's method for measuring full sized cans. I bought my SPL meter near work and measured the background noise on my commute home that night. The noise on DC's Metro was 85-95dBs with peaks up to 120dBs. If I didn't have isolating IEMs to wear on my commute, I'd probably be wearing ear plugs after seeing how load the trains are.

My IEMs sound better than the isolating full sized cans that I've heard, but in quiet environments, I'll almost any of my open cans over my IEMs.

To those who have problems with IEMs hurting, is it really the sound that hurts or is it the pressure on the ear canal from tips that are too big or made from a material that irritates your ear canal. I know this is what causes pain for me with triflanges or foam tips that are too big. With a proper fit, I have worn my IEMs for up to 7 hours on flights.

Also opening your mouth and lifting your ear lobe while inserting them helps to relieve some of the pressure on your ear drum.
No way thanks for directing me to the thread.

Good points you make about how loud subways, etc. are. Definitely at damaging levels.

Also, good point about IEMs hurting. I think some associate ear pain with loudness pain, when it's just because you have something in your ear.
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post #23 of 29
7/11/07 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scompton View Post
To those who have problems with IEMs hurting, is it really the sound that hurts or is it the pressure on the ear canal from tips that are too big or made from a material that irritates your ear canal. I know this is what causes pain for me with triflanges or foam tips that are too big. With a proper fit, I have worn my IEMs for up to 7 hours on flights.
nice, another 703er

I almost exclusively use IEMs, but unlike most responses i've seen in this thread, I can comfortably wear them for hours on end, up to 5 to 6 hours. Granted, I use super.fi 5 pro's with the mod that switches the left and right earphones, so the foam/silicone tips don't go in as deeply as they normally would. Not to mention the normal, standard usage of these earphones results in having two white things sticking out of your ear wherever you go (somewhat of a concern since I wear these just about everywhere)

However, the discomfort that I DO experience after very prolonged use simply comes from the physical pressure that the tips exert on my ear canals, and the metal reinforcement wire that runs over my ear does make it a bit red.

Basically, it's not the sound that hurts (I use these IEMs at greatly varying sound levels, whether at home in silence or on public transportation), but it's the actual pressure of having something stuck in your ear for hours. I doubt the tip material would cause irritation though.
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post #24 of 29
7/11/07 at 7:49pm
I used my cx300's tonight (cleaning up my kitchen at work), I had pantera a little louder than i now know i should of.

My ears are ringing/humming, so there's a frequency i wont be getting back.
Never happened with my cans..

Little pee'd off to say the least.
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post #25 of 29
7/11/07 at 7:49pm
I too worry about tinnitis from IEMs. They make some sense in loud environments but I think that seal againt your eardrum may have some negative effect. Even an hour (not even) of listening to the q-Jays and Westone 3s at the Ontario Meet left my eardrums feeling a bit funny. I think that armeture style IEMs that directly move the eardrum via a vacuum seal are a different ballgame than soundwaves bouncing off the eardrums in a non-sealed environment. I can't prove that it's worse but I have my concerns.

Frankly on a train, I'd rather get a good portable amp and take my Darths which isolate sufficiently. Not necessarily convenient for transit commuting I suppose.
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post #26 of 29
7/12/07 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbui View Post
nice, another 703er

I almost exclusively use IEMs, but unlike most responses i've seen in this thread, I can comfortably wear them for hours on end, up to 5 to 6 hours. Granted, I use super.fi 5 pro's with the mod that switches the left and right earphones, so the foam/silicone tips don't go in as deeply as they normally would. Not to mention the normal, standard usage of these earphones results in having two white things sticking out of your ear wherever you go (somewhat of a concern since I wear these just about everywhere)
Are you going to the meet Saturday? I couldn't wear the Super.fi 3 for more than 15-20 minutes without a lot of pain, even with the FS mod. The nozzles are just too big for my ears.
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by *645-k701 View Post
I used my cx300's tonight (cleaning up my kitchen at work), I had pantera a little louder than i now know i should of.

My ears are ringing/humming, so there's a frequency i wont be getting back.
Never happened with my cans..

Little pee'd off to say the least.
That's definitely from sound instead of tips. I've owned a couple of canal phones including the cx300 and I can't imagine the tips hurting someone's ears, they just don't go in far enough. For people who do have problems with IEMs, you might want to try the UM1. They don't go in very far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post
I too worry about tinnitis from IEMs. They make some sense in loud environments but I think that seal againt your eardrum may have some negative effect. Even an hour (not even) of listening to the q-Jays and Westone 3s at the Ontario Meet left my eardrums feeling a bit funny. I think that armeture style IEMs that directly move the eardrum via a vacuum seal are a different ballgame than soundwaves bouncing off the eardrums in a non-sealed environment. I can't prove that it's worse but I have my concerns.

Frankly on a train, I'd rather get a good portable amp and take my Darths which isolate sufficiently. Not necessarily convenient for transit commuting I suppose.
Supposedly, if you lift your ear lobe and open your mouth when inserting them , the pressure is relieved. I have to lift my ear to straighten out my ear canal just to get an IEM in, so I've never had a problem with the pressure.

If I had decent isolating full sized cans, I'd probably use them occasionally. I just have the HD 280 Pro, which don't sound that great, and the DT831, which don't isolate at all and don't sound that great (although better than the 280s). I'm not sure that Darths or 770s would suit me sound wise. I love the "bass light" AKG sound. My HD 580s are as bass heavy as I want.
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post #27 of 29
7/12/07 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scompton View Post
Are you going to the meet Saturday? I couldn't wear the Super.fi 3 for more than 15-20 minutes without a lot of pain, even with the FS mod. The nozzles are just too big for my ears.
nah, I didn't even know there was one until you mentioned it just now, and even if I could go, I would have run into a few problems at the bar
looking at the guest and equipment list sparked my interest though, as I see only one IEM of all the headphones and equip. there?

my ears are relatively small as well, which is among one of the reasons I find the FS mod to work so well. the nozzle and tip sit in the outside of the canal, yet still seal it enough to provide excellent bass, so long as don't create too much pressure when putting it in. as a result, the IEMs don't go very far in my ear, letting me wear them for hours on end
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post #28 of 29
7/12/07 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbui View Post
nah, I didn't even know there was one until you mentioned it just now, and even if I could go, I would have run into a few problems at the bar
looking at the guest and equipment list sparked my interest though, as I see only one IEM of all the headphones and equip. there?

my ears are relatively small as well, which is among one of the reasons I find the FS mod to work so well. the nozzle and tip sit in the outside of the canal, yet still seal it enough to provide excellent bass, so long as don't create too much pressure when putting it in. as a result, the IEMs don't go very far in my ear, letting me wear them for hours on end
The meet is during the day at a hotel in College Park. That's where the equipment will be.
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post #29 of 29
7/12/07 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post
I too worry about tinnitis from IEMs. They make some sense in loud environments but I think that seal againt your eardrum may have some negative effect. Even an hour (not even) of listening to the q-Jays and Westone 3s at the Ontario Meet left my eardrums feeling a bit funny. I think that armeture style IEMs that directly move the eardrum via a vacuum seal are a different ballgame than soundwaves bouncing off the eardrums in a non-sealed environment. I can't prove that it's worse but I have my concerns.

Frankly on a train, I'd rather get a good portable amp and take my Darths which isolate sufficiently. Not necessarily convenient for transit commuting I suppose.
The hearing occours after the eardrum, the eardrums works as a membrane or driver if you want, and transfers the vibrations to the innerear, where some sensor-hairs sends the info to your brain..and it is when those hairs break you loose your hearing, it is possible to loose your hearing without damage to your eardrums.

The eardrums can withstand quite a pressure, freedivers goes more than 100 meters deep, without any kind of equiment...
I do not believe that an IEM can provide that kind of pressure, not even close..
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