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The Storm Pandora Thread - Page 12

post #166 of 173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomana View Post
003, Until Ken makes good, there will be no thread about his DACs that will not be filled with head-fiers who object to others touting his products when he has stolen money from others. It's not unlike situations in which a known thief or predator moves into a neighborhood and all the neighbors get together and let each other know, and then tell new neighbors when they move in. We're a community. That's just what happens and should. I wouldn't waste your effort trying to stop it. You just come off sounding like a fractious twit, and I don't think that's really your style.
when i posted this thread it was actually looking hopeful that units would start shipping soon. thats why i put the disclaimer up the top. i wanted to make it very clear to everyone that ken has ripped a LOT of peopel up so that no one goes sending him money without the risks. at the same time, i wanted to have a dedicated thread for reviews that i was hoping would get populated with reviews in the coming days and weeks when people started receiving their dacs. the other thread could be full of complains about scamming. unfortunately, only a few people have received their dacs so that didn't happen.

in part i slowed down the process of peopel gettin their dacs in time because i found some issues with it, such as the transformers
post #167 of 173
superpredator - thank you for a well reasoned couple of posts. It's nice to hear a little bit of common sense.
post #168 of 173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superpredator View Post
Aside from that and despite widespread claim that a premature review of the Pandora serves only to make matters worse, a thread for discussion of the Pandora as a product would have been of great benefit to the members awaiting resolution. No one yet knows for sure whether the Pandora will be free of issues or even be a decent DAC at all. Members who originally paid money for a D02 had read many impressions and reviews of the unit beforehand, and they haven't exactly been able to do this with the Pandora. I suspect that the ongoing hostility towards anyone who would dare post impressions is limiting the potential for sharing information. The majority of people vocalizing on the subject seem so terrified of a positive review that they're forgetting the very real possibility of a negative one, one that would help the members involved decide whether they should take the DAC or instead demand a refund. One could say that in light of the uncertainty as to quality people should simply do the safe thing and demand the refund, but that's easy to say when your money isn't on the line and not so easy when you're well aware of the uncertainty over even getting anything at all.
I more or less agree. Everyone also has to take into account that when i posted the original review, i was under the impression that people would start gettin their units soon. i was hopin to provide a little "light at the end of the tunnel" for them. unfortunately, when reviewing the unit i gave some recommendations to ken of how to improve the pandora and he seemed to really take them to heart and decide to impliment the improvements... which delayed everything and made my original review look really weird (since it was ages ago and almost no one has got their unit since)

edit: also i apologise for posting off several posts in rapid fire above. i dont have the net at home and only visit the forums when at uni. i'm currently at uni doin a group assignment so the rest of my group wasn't too fond of me spending time on the forums i haven't had time to be too articulate OR to merge the posts into one
post #169 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugz View Post
I've ordered a dac from storm, yes. I also talk to ken on msn which is why i post up here (because i can often provide new information about when he's going to refund people or post out the dacs or the progess or dacs). I post up not because I enjoy seeing the drama and fuss, but because i'm trying to provide new information to those who are involved in the problems with ken, in an attempt to make a little bit more aware of the likely outcomes
So you've ordered and paid for a DAC directly from Ken? Because when you started this thread I believe you said you hadn't and if you haven't ordered and paid directly from Ken I'd think that would put into the category of "people who are not involved" as you put it.

There's something you fail to realize, just because you talk to Ken on MSN it does not mean that what he's telling you is truth, I can attest to that.
post #170 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjalloq View Post
jp11801

LOL, another laughable post. So now you're not content just attacking Ken, you're questioning the credibility of a poster trying to understand the full situation and help in any way to getting people their money back. Nice.

In fact, let me take a moment to give you my story. Even though I only have a few posts I have been around for a long time. In fact well before the original D02 saga started. At the time I'm sure I posted on the forum and again at the start of those Heed CanAmp threads as I now have one sat on my desk. Even though akwok seems to have given up completely on getting his Pandora, if you asked him, I'm sure he'd confirm that it was himself who helped me transfer my money to Ken originally. If it helps you, I'm more than happy to take a picture of my "paper weight" and post it up here. The reason for my lack of posts is that I don't have enough time in the day. I follow quite a number of forums, mostly as a lurker trawling for information on particular points of interest. If and when I post it's normally just to clarify something I couldn't get from reading the thread. For some on here it is obviously a little more than just an information resource, as can be seen by the number of posts some of you have, but questioning someone over that number screams more of a cult than an open forum.

At the end of the day I'm happy for people to warn their fellow community members against giving any money to Ken. In fact I wouldn't either, at least not until I'm happy that he is back on his feet and the business is generating cash. Why you seem to have the opinion that I'm throwing more cash his way I'm not sure. What I don't see the point of is the continual bashing. It doesn't help anyone get their funds or product that they are owed. In fact, from my eyes it just seems downright ludicrous why anyone would do that. As many have pointed out, the disclaimer on the front of this thread is there for everyone to see and many more posts at the beginning have explained why it is there. EOC.

I apologise for my earlier attacks but you just look and sound like a rowdy lynch mob. What you are contributing to helping people in this particular situation comes to the total sum of zero. I think if you went back and re-read my posts you would realise that I am not a defender of what Ken did, I am in fact just interested in the guy getting back in business and sorting everyone out. He is in this situation off of his own back but I'm not going to wish more financial pain on him. Until I'm proven wrong I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and I sincerely hope that a few more people let him get on with it. As in my point 4 above, if no-one wants to own up to the fact that they are still having difficulty contacting Ken or the US distributor to sort out their problems, then that screams to me that everyone is happy and your jibes have no standing whatsoever.

And finally, I assume your last comment was wrt Voltron? I actually don't care if he was the President or Mother Teresa, anyone who does or says something stupid should be brought up to account for it. If he wants to follow a path of trying to distort what I said, followed by ignoring my questioning of that, followed by just posting pictures, then I must say, he has grown considerably in my estimation. LOL.

Edit - I hope my new avatar makes him happy.
I am glad we can amuse each other with laughable posts I feel likewise and stand by my previous comments.
I certainly beleive you when you say you have a non-working dac which was why I called it a paperweight. You and others I feel have misunderstood what some members here are trying to avoid. Headfi members from time to time has been the victims of less than reputable gear makers. As a community we tend to get excited when we see the "next big thing" and fair amounts of members get swept up into it. No everyone reads all posts in all threads and we have had examples of people pulling stunts twice, kinda like Lucy pulling the ball out from under Charlie Brown. While you feel you have a history here and seem to assume 7 months a long time (in headfi terms it probabky is) in reality it is not all that long to have any perspective.
I find it discouraging and disresoectfull that people who simply care about and put back into this community as shiwn by their actions are assumed to have the lowest of motives when attempting to warn off potential new buyers of Storm products lured by the low cost and potential up side.
Each one of us comes here for different reasons some to lurk and learn, some to contribute in a "virtual" way, some who have bridged the gap from a web page to creating atual community and some sadly to poke and prod other people for fun because they dared not do it in the real world for fear of a bloody nose.
On to what I and other are contributing to you or others getting their money back well sadly not much, I'm not sure we could do anything short of a planeride to HK. What we are attempting to do is put up a very large red flag to help others, we do not want to see more people get taken by Ken. Heck I am in the market for a dac for a second system and even after all that went on took a hard look at the pandora even after all I knew. How do you think a newbie with thier first saved pile of money is going to feel about a community that vocally supports a dac maker who has stolen from members in the past.
After this drama started back up I went back into the Action Against Storm Digital thread and was hopehull that people there were getting their cash or dacs sadly no. I really do not beleive that after now 2 years Ken does not know how to pack a dac for international shipping or that you need to choose your transformers well beacuse if you don't they hum.

You can feel free not to beleive this but having spoken to a number of people who are sending up the warning flags they have no interst in goading people who have gotten taken and I feel bad that you and others feel that way. We just don't want to see one more person get ripped off.

I also apologize if you feel you were being personally attacked we can be a rowdy buch but hopefully a fun loving rowdy bunch
BTW I love the avatar and think it shows a great sense of humor
post #171 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjalloq View Post
And finally, I assume your last comment was wrt Voltron? I actually don't care if he was the President or Mother Teresa, anyone who does or says something stupid should be brought up to account for it. If he wants to follow a path of trying to distort what I said, followed by ignoring my questioning of that, followed by just posting pictures, then I must say, he has grown considerably in my estimation. LOL.

Edit - I hope my new avatar makes him happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp11801 View Post
You can feel free not to beleive this but having spoken to a number of people who are sending up the warning flags they have no interst in goading people who have gotten taken and I feel bad that you and others feel that way. We just don't want to see one more person get ripped off.

I also apologize if you feel you were being personally attacked we can be a rowdy buch but hopefully a fun loving rowdy bunch
BTW I love the avatar and think it shows a great sense of humor

I'm not the President and I'm not Mother Teresa, but when not lynchin' people I am the president of the Mother Teresa Fan Club. She would not appreciate your use of foul language and name-calling. Neither do I.

Like JP, however, I do appreciate your comedic gesture of using the avatar I offered and hope that maybe we can all move on. I don't think you are a shill and I have never thought you had -- or accused you of having -- any ill motives in your posts other than telling others to stop "mouthing off." Also like JP said, I am not in this for the drama or the banter, but because I honestly believe that the positive posts about Storm are detrimental to the community until Ken has gotten his act fully together. I also honestly don't believe that people slagging him off here has any impact on him accomplishing that goal. Good luck in getting compensated for your paperweight or getting a new Storm dac that actually works.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hugz View Post
also how can you say to somone else "find another forum if you dont like the openness of this one". its not too open if you're telling someone to leave for sayin something you dont like
I didn't suggest that sjalloc move on to another forum because I didn't like what he was saying, I simply said that trying to censor others wasn't going to work here and that if he didn't like it he should find a different online outlet.
post #172 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugz View Post
when i posted this thread it was actually looking hopeful that units would start shipping soon. thats why i put the disclaimer up the top. i wanted to make it very clear to everyone that ken has ripped a LOT of peopel up so that no one goes sending him money without the risks. at the same time, i wanted to have a dedicated thread for reviews that i was hoping would get populated with reviews in the coming days and weeks when people started receiving their dacs. the other thread could be full of complains about scamming. unfortunately, only a few people have received their dacs so that didn't happen.

in part i slowed down the process of peopel gettin their dacs in time because i found some issues with it, such as the transformers
That, I completely understand. It's unfortunate that you unknowingly jumped the gun, which is certainly not your fault, but Ken's. I may be in a similar quandry soon. Supposedly, the long-awaited Diablos (up to 25 months of waiting) have started shipping. Although I'm not first in line, let's say, by simple virtue of living in the US with shorter shipping times, I receive mine before others. Do I, in my excitement, post impressions? Do I assume that since I got mine, others are getting their amps? What if it's not true, and others are left in the lurch? Will I even know? Or, what if I and others don't receive ours, and are left with nothing but a $500 hole in our wallets while reading the favorable impressions of the very few who may have gotten one?

I think I've learned a lot from this and the other Storm thread. If I happen to get my amp, I will post that I received it, but will refrain saying anything else until I know others have received theirs, and more will be available without the drama of waiting and poor communication. The Diablo may be the best little amp in the world, but I wouldn't want my personal enthusiasm to translate as a recommendation to buy from someone who can't deliver, and may continue to screw people over. My intentions to post impressions might be coming from a good place, but the consequence of doing so could be damaging to others, and I need to be aware of that no matter how it affects me personally.

One thing is for sure: neither you nor I nor any member of this community is at fault. Ken is. His continued inability to produce a promised product, despite intentions and promises, is the problem, not us, unless we choose to align ourselves with Ken before he makes good. If people think that by posting positive impressions or words of Ken's goodwill (without supporting evidence), they can help get his buisness back up and running so he can make good, it's showing up as dangerous and backwards thinking. He has not proven worthy of such confidence. It's also a selfish way to go by putting the community at risk again. I don't think that was your intention, but your posts often read as such, which is why others of us step in.

Strangely, I think we're all on the same side, but since we didn't create the problem, and are not in control of the solution, we just need to be wise, and look at how our words affect not just ourselves but the broader community. As to how they affect Ken and his business, I could care less. He, again, is the problem and needs to work things out without support from us until he's earned it.
post #173 of 173
Well, that was somewhat of an unfortunate development, but no one can say that the moderators' exceptional tolerance on the matter hasn't facilitated the possibility for a very wide-open discussion. Any claims to the contrary is just not paying attention.
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