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Panasonic SA-XR55,57,etc. class D receivers: Weaknesses?

post #1 of 26
7/9/07 at 3:16am
Thread Starter 
Do the Panasonic digital receivers (XR55, XR57, etc.) have any weaknesses? I have seen so much positive press for these class D amplifiers that my interest has been piqued.

Has anyone done A-B'ing with mid-fi or hi-fi equipment? It just seems unbelievable that these $200 receivers could approach multi-thousand dollar class AB receivers.

Is this another case of people drinking the budget Kool-Aid?
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post #2 of 26
7/9/07 at 8:34am
The only weakness I have heard is a bit of brightness. There have been complaints of female vocals being a little sharp but overall I would say it stacks up to any HT receiver under $1000 no problem. Additionally, it is very light and produces very little heat.

For the $$ it is simply the best bang for the buck ever. The SQ is like a modded T-amp but with POWER. This is especially true in bi-amped mode.

I can compare it to NAD, Onykyo, Denon and Sony. There really is no contest except for the SQ of the NAD and Denon but the price difference gives the edge to the XR-57. That and heat production lol.. It's easy to use and it pumps out serious sound. I feel lucky to have one.

Soundstage is accurate. I was listening to NiN "With Teeth". The last track, I forget the name, Trent starts out singing just slightly right middle, then he shifts to left center then strongly comes into focus in the center. The level of his voice changes with each section and can be distinctly "seen" in the soundstage. In other words, get one.
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post #3 of 26
7/9/07 at 2:14pm
I can think of two:

1. The analog inputs aren't that great. My old Technics receiver sounded better on SACDs than my Panny xr55. As you may know, SACDs required analog input into an amp. For digital signals, the XR-55 and its brothers and sisters kick ass!

2. I just found out last week that the Headphone out pretty much sucks. My Zune sounded quite a bit better with MP3 versus the Panny with lossless. I was using the Alessandro MS-1s. I bet that the headphone amp is NOT class D. Its probably some cheap DAC + Opamp.

Great receivers - highly recommended. Just remember to keep it digital all the way. If you already have a sweet DAC then don't bother with these. Their main benefit is their use as a power DAC.
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post #4 of 26
7/9/07 at 3:46pm
Thread Starter 
I've read about the receiver's PCM => PWM conversion. Very interesting technique. It's hard to compare something like that to a normal DAC, especially if the analog inputs aren't pure (i.e. analog gets converted to PWM anyway).

I already have two sources, one with Burr-Brown PCM1738 DACs and the other with Cirrus CS4398 DACs, so the analog section needs to be decent...

spacemanspliff, have you compared the XR57 to a good source feeding one of the receivers/amplifiers you mentioned?

Max F, which speakers are you using?
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post #5 of 26
7/9/07 at 4:18pm
Panny SA-XR series is just phenomenal value.

One thing I don't like is the puny stock 16 AWG (?) power cord. Easy to rectify with an adapter and a real power cord.

Also, the overall SQ will be determined by the quality of the digital signal/transport feeding it. Feed it really clean, low-jitter digital signal and power your 2-channel speakers with the dual-amp function, and prepare to be amazed!
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post #6 of 26
7/9/07 at 5:04pm
I didn't find the Panasonic to be very musical. It was perfect for movies though.
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post #7 of 26
7/9/07 at 7:08pm
atm my transport SUCKS so I can't make any real judgments beyond it having as good a level of detail and soundstage as anything NAD or Denon puts out.

I have had excellent sources in the past such as the iMod and the PS audio GCHA dac/amp w/ a NAD 330 watt component amp but not these speakers. I had some Paradigm monitior 9s with that setup.

It is not burned in yet and my source is a crappy Soundblaster NX playing lossless so until I get a real transport....

It has crazy quick transients and precise soundstage right now.

Just a bit hard and glaring at the upper registries. Makes up for it with a very clear sound. It is perfect for movies, games and does well with music but if you are looking for warm and fuzzy look elsewhere.

For low to medium level music listening I have ZERO complaints for the $$. When it gets loud, mind you it nor my Ushers are burned in yet, there is a harshness to it which makes me turn it down but it may just be too damn loud lol.
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post #8 of 26
7/9/07 at 7:19pm
It's probably the speakers+acoustics, not likely to be your source.
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post #9 of 26
7/9/07 at 7:26pm
Huh? Are you referring to the harshness? It has been mentioned by other folks.

I am comparing this amp to the iMod b/c that is what it sounds most like to me.

Detail and separation are prominent here. I am really pleased with those aspects while the only letdown is really minor but if I am being very critical I must say it can be less than natural sounding. More on the cold and clinical side but still very, very good for games and movies but maybe not for critical music listening.

However, for the money, even at twice the price it's better than anything else I have heard music or otherwise.
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post #10 of 26
7/9/07 at 7:31pm
spacemanspliff How does the bass of the Panny 57 sound compared to another speaker amp?
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post #11 of 26
7/9/07 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemanspliff View Post
atm my transport SUCKS ..

Just a bit hard and glaring at the upper r
Most cheap, consumer DVD players make horrible transports for 2-channel music. Some are actually pretty good, but you kind of have to find one by accident.

Oh, the stock power cord is either 16 or 18 AWG and unshielded, which is providing power flow for all your 6.1 channels of amplification

Change that puny cord for at least some decent shielded >14-12 AWG cord and listen as the "glare" and "strain" disappear at higher volume levels. You'll need a C8 to C14 adapter (Polarized) like this one:

http://www.elementcable.com/catalog/...products_id=54
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post #12 of 26
7/9/07 at 7:37pm
i set my father-in-law up with an XR55 and a pair of Athena bookshelves about 2 or 3 years ago... for about $300, he has a seriously sweet sounding setup. i honestly couldn't believe it when i first heard it.

when i first set it up, i dialed down the treble -3dB. every time i came back (a few months between visits), i'd give the system a listen, and dial up the treble one more dB. the second or third time i visited, the treble went to 0dB and there it has remained.

whatever harshness i heard is gone, even though the Athenas are notably starchy in the upper frequencies.

the soundstage could be bigger, and the music could perhaps be lusher, but every time i visit the in-laws, i try to set aside an hour or so to listen... and i always pat myself on the back for getting him a great budget rig.
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post #13 of 26
7/9/07 at 8:03pm
I'm talking about your system playing loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacemanspliff View Post
Huh? Are you referring to the harshness? It has been mentioned by other folks.

I am comparing this amp to the iMod b/c that is what it sounds most like to me.

Detail and separation are prominent here. I am really pleased with those aspects while the only letdown is really minor but if I am being very critical I must say it can be less than natural sounding. More on the cold and clinical side but still very, very good for games and movies but maybe not for critical music listening.

However, for the money, even at twice the price it's better than anything else I have heard music or otherwise.
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post #14 of 26
7/9/07 at 8:56pm
Thread Starter 
Well... I don't doubt that for the money, these are fine and interesting receivers. However, Athena AS-B1 and Usher S-520 bookshelves aren't exactly reference monitors. I wonder if someone with more high-end listening experience could chime in.

Jon L, which speakers have you heard with the XR57?
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post #15 of 26
7/9/07 at 9:12pm
what would you consider to be reference monitors? its all relative. with some budget bookshelfs, the panny's would be great. with my totem mani-2's, the panny's would be garbage.

if your strictly concerned about two channel performance, don't get too caught up in the good reviews for these receivers. for the money its great, for HT its great, for a serious two channel rig... not so great. if you have some reference quality speakers, these receivers are not going to be as good as a decent multi-thousand dollar amps, no matter what any reviewer says.
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