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Solid state-Leave it on at all times or turn it off? - Page 4

post #46 of 60
7/7/07 at 10:23am
Most pro gear does not even have an off switch to temp newbies to turn it off.

The new standby modes soak up very little power, and are less wear and tear on the power supply.
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post #47 of 60
7/7/07 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
Tbonner,


Interesting.

We haven't yet addressed power supply failure. In computers, the power supply is the place where most computers fail. I read that 30% of all computer failure is due to a burned out power supply.

I have also read that the on/off cycle is bad for power supplies. I guess there is a balancing act going on here. Do you risk damage to the power supply with on /off cycling or do you leave it on and risk draining the Caps?
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post #48 of 60
7/7/07 at 8:15pm
Please turn your gear off when you aren't using it. I am by no means a tree-hugger, but the environmental situation is getting worse by the day. I run all vintage equipment, and every single unit sounds about 100% better after a few hours of on-time, but my listening pleasure is by certainly MUCH LESS important than the health of our Earth.

Not to mention, every individual component used in any piece of equipment, SS or tube, has a Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF). For semiconductors, this time can be quite high: Maybe 25000 hours or more. For capacitors or high-heat parts, the time might be much less, like 10000 hours. Again, it's your gear.

Needless to say, I probably would NOT own any all-original, working vintage gear if the previous owners had ran it 24/7 for 20+ years...

happy listening.
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post #49 of 60
7/7/07 at 8:35pm
sunseeker seems to be giving us some pretty good commonsense advice.

My PS Audio GCHA has no off switch, and PS Audio recommends keeping it on all the time, but I unplug it. I try to let it warm up for a half hour before I listen, though.

Gotta turn my computer off before I listen, though, in order to get a quieter environment. *sigh* Can anyone tell me if I'm radically shortening the lifespan of my Gateway by doing that?

Life is a series of compromises..................
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post #50 of 60
7/7/07 at 9:59pm
Ive been using a Dell dimension running Xp since 2003 and have never ever left it on for more than 1 day at a time. Never had anything done to it, and i am on it right now. Thanks for the compliment, BTW
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post #51 of 60
7/8/07 at 7:12am
Please reference the South Park episode with hybrid cars and "Smug Alert!".




Bonus points:

Q. - Where was Kenny in the episode "Smug Alert!"?
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post #52 of 60
7/8/07 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tin ears View Post
Why are those of you who turn off your equipment doing so? Does it help you sleep better at night or do you believe there is real equipment degradation possible by powered on state?
I feel firstly why should I pay for electricity I'm not actively using? Secondly, global warming. If I can contribute to slowing it down by lowering my energy usage and increasing energy efficiency why not?
I find most sources / dac's / headphone amps sound fine by giving them an hour to warm up. I know power cycling them is more likely to damage them than leaving them on, but hey. I modded most of them and if they break, I will fix them.
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post #53 of 60
7/8/07 at 9:10am
Quote:
We haven't yet addressed power supply failure. In computers, the power supply is the place where most computers fail. I read that 30% of all computer failure is due to a burned out power supply.

I have also read that the on/off cycle is bad for power supplies.
Ironicly an ATX power supply is always on. It delivers constant current to the mainboard, a.o. to be able to turn the PC on remotely (wake on lan, modem, etc).
For those questioning the sanity of turning equipment off: here's a link to a datasheet of a long life type cap. To emphasis the life span, the manufacturer put graphs in the datasheet with capacitance and resistance vs. usage. See page 2.
http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/EDLC.pdf
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post #54 of 60
7/8/07 at 9:50am
Thread Starter 
Since it is Sunday morning, I thought I'd provide a quote from the good book-

Regarding the $16,000 a pair Ayre monoblocks-"There's no power off option, which might bother some-the MX-R consumes 45 watts in standbye mode and 120 watts powered on with no signal. The amp had a clangy opacity when cold, however; once I'd got it comfortably warm and stable, I had an incentive to keep it that way."

Wes Phillips, Stereophile, April 2007, pg. 133
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post #55 of 60
7/8/07 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tin ears View Post
Skylab,

My cablebox/tivo/dvr is the hottest running component I own. You have to literally unplug it to get it to turn off. It has been running 24/7 for 3 years without any problems. If you unplug it, it takes between 15 minutes and 60 minutes to fully reboot and capture all the channel info from the cable company.

Do you feel that if an electrical component generates heat, it is more likely to fail or start on fire and that's why you turn it off? It seems to me, that if it were designed properly, with proper cooling, the engineers that designed it would have planned for this.

Like the Krell owner who posted above, I have kept my amp, preamp, DAC and cd player on for 10 plus years without any noticeable degradation in sound quality and no equipment malfunction. The 200 watt per channel dual mono amp generates a decent amount of heat. Are we just lucky?
My reason to turn it off was to save electricity. If it's generating a lot of heat, it's using a lot of electricity.
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post #56 of 60
7/8/07 at 10:44am
tin ears

It is try that many computer problems are related to power supplies gone bad. What we need are ISO specs for MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) for the power supplies in our gear.

Skylab is right about heat being another probelm and if my component gets hot it gets turned off. I think the heat is more of a threat than the power surge of turning it on and off several times a day.
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post #57 of 60
7/9/07 at 12:31pm
Thread Starter 
After owning and enjoying electonic equipment of various types for years, this discussion has been very interesting and eye opening to me.

I spoke with a technical advisor at ELNA caps.

1. Caps absolutely have a lifespan due to electrolytic leakage.

2. Even unused, a cap will last no more than 30-40 years due to point one.

3. Heat is the cap's biggest enemy because it increases electrolytic loss.

4. There are 85 degree Celsius rated- 1000 and 2000 hr caps, and 105 degree C rated caps.

5. 85 degree C by 1000 hr are most commonly used in low temp audio equipment.

6. Audio equipment never gets to 85 C unless there is a problem with design or ventilation.

7. An 85 degree C 1000 hr rated cap doubles its lifespan for every 10 degrees drop in temp below 85 degree C.

8. IE and 85 degree C cap has a 90,000 hour lifespan at room temp or 20 degrees Celsius. That is the equivalent of 10 plus years of constant on use.

9. A defective cap will make significant negative changes in sound quality and or cause the equipment to malfunction.
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post #58 of 60
7/9/07 at 12:53pm
I've seen people saying that you should leave all your audio equipment on all the time, and I've seen people say that you should leave your computer on all the time, but I have yet to see anyone say that you should leave your television on all the time. Why is that? Is it because of the sheer power that a television consumes, so there is more of an energy savings when the TV is off than when a headphone amp is off? Is it because the TV has other components that are subject to wear and have short lifespans? I'm not trying to be difficult, but wouldn't the same arguments that apply to audio equipment also apply to video equipment?

I've never seen anyone say that his plasma screen takes a half hour to get "warmed up" to look its best, so he just leaves it on all the time. Maybe I just hang out in the wrong forums.
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post #59 of 60
7/9/07 at 1:02pm
The reason to turn TVs off is the exact same as to turn tube amps off - life expectancy. In the case of a TV, the tube, lamp, or plasma/lcd has a clear life expectancy, and it's crazy to burn it up with no one watching.

It's best not to turn a TV off and then on again rapidly, but leaving it on unwatched for hours on end is just wasting electricity AND using up the life of either the set itself (plasma or tube) or the lamp (LCD/DLP).
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post #60 of 60
7/9/07 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 
Mister Crash, Skylab is correct.

A typical 50 inch plasma uses between 400-500 watts and costs $3000. Because of the size and energy usage, they generate significant heat.

A typical cd player uses 25 watts and costs $100 and a Headphone amp between 10 and 50 watts and costs $500. Total of less than 75 watts for both or one lightbulb.

So, the plasma uses 5-7 times the energy and costs 5-7 times the cdp plus amp.

A plasma and a tube tv is also subject to screen burn in if left on.

I have read the MTBF for a plasma is around 60,000 hours or 6-7 years of constant on. Airports leave their LCD monitors on 24/7 just as an FYI. They use LCD as it is not susceptible to burn in.
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