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Mayan Calendar and Dec. 21, 2012 - Page 2

post #16 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus Short View Post
"no"?

A reasoned argument with supporting evidence would be so preferable to simple denial...

I happen to be well-read on the 2012/Mayan Calendar subject, having read entire books about it. I seem not to be in the mood to expound on it here - perhaps I'm just tired of the soap-boxing I used to do.
Laz
Try to refute his argument when there is no points to refute!

It is the ultimate argument!



Seriously though, I put little belief into any of this, the world was supposed to end many times over, according to these things, by now.
post #17 of 59
This date is being tied in with Planet-X theories, stating that the Mayan cyclic calender is based around Planet-X's solar revolution. Many other ancient cultures, it is suggested, based their calenders around the 3,600 or so years it takes the mythical Planet-X to enter back into our solar system. To sum up, Planet-X makes its return trip, causing the Earth to flip (pole shift). The pole shift causes apocalyptic natural disasters.

I am currently reading a book about this, and, if the author has not fabricated a large portion of it, it is amazing how many ancient cultures spanning the globe have similar accounts of a celestial body passing Earth and causing mass devastation. The names given are different, of course (see below for some), but the story is the same. It passes, changes the entire land and seascape of the globe, nearly wipes out all life (but not all), and when the devastation is completed, the remaining survivors start anew.


I personally don't know what to make of it. I don't believe anything I hear out of NASA, but don't buy fully into Planet-X and Dec. 12, 2012 theories, either. I suppose we will find out soon enough.

If you want to read more, google "Planet-X", "Niburu", "Marduk", and even the biblical reference to "Wormwood".

And, as others here have already stated, the Mayan calender does not end on Dec. 12, 2012, it begins a new cycle. Other theories surrounding the date include our consciousness entering the fourth dimension.
post #18 of 59
Attention believers - Please write me a check for your account balance and post-date it for 2013
post #19 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wodgy View Post
It's not the end of Mayan time though. A bunch of charlatans are trying to sell it as that, but even Jenkins will acknowledge it's just the beginning of another long count. The Mayans had names for longer periods of time and would refer to them occasionally, e.g.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoame...ns_beyond_2012
Exactly! It's just the beginning of another long count. Every cycle of destruction in Mayan mythology is immediately succeeded by a sociogenetic rebirth.

I just finished rereading Karl Taube's Aztec and Maya Myths (Austin: U Texas P, 1993). I believe that we are still the generation of 'people' who were created by Queztacoatl from corn. In any case, we call all rest assured that even after all principal land-masses have been submerged by by the angry gods in a sudden punitive deluge -- probably because we make too much noise, like one of the last times -- and the malevolent star demons have flayed all the survivors to create an authentically natural eschatalogical 'add-a-bead' necklace, the divine twins will create a better human race to inhabit the world. I predict that our successors will be fashioned from the remnants of cdr and dvdr coasters.
post #20 of 59
1. Sounds like a good excuse to charge $100,000 to high intrest credit cards in november.... you won't be around to pay the bill!

2. Much like Y2K, maybe the calander stopped at 2012 because lazy Inca programmers/stone-cutters figured the civilization would just carve some new rocks before then.

3. You're reading it wrong, its not a calander, its a take-out menu, there are 2012 items to choose from.
post #21 of 59
I don't see that big of deal with this, it probably won't be anything major seeing humanity's past track record for predicting the apocalypse, if it is then I guess I won't be around to care anyway right? However if it is a serious disaster where most people die and I happen to survive, then I'll start worrying, but I'm not getting worked up over something based on some Mayan predictions.
post #22 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeAmEye View Post
I don't believe anything I hear out of NASA, but don't buy fully into Planet-X and Dec. 12, 2012 theories, either.
[Emphasis added by me] Just to be clear, from the above statements do you give the benefit of the doubt more to Planet-X theories than NASA statements?


---

A few things seem necessary to address.

1) Aside from how much the Mayan culture got right (zero, penicillin, exacting calendar, etc.), they got an awful lot more wrong from the modern perspective. You would think insight into this large, at least solar system wide process would sidestep much of the natural cultural evolution most civilizations go through.

2) Assuming at the height of the Mayan culture they were able to somehow decode these cycles of solar system or galaxy or universe, the larger question is do you think the solar system/galaxy/universe is tied to these rules? And we're talking much larger changes than cyclic magnetic shifts, etc. To believe some of these claims requires a whole, nearly metaphysical rulebook the universe has to operate under every X Earth years. I suppose it's the same question you have to apply to any religious system. Take a small belief system then inflate it to "world" that is well known to be more complicated than the beliefs. So we compromise the facts to bring it back inline. Seriously though, what evidence do we have that such an aligned cyclic nature is in place for the Mayans to tap in to?

3) Aside from the likelihood of change in 2011/2012, what is the fascination with imposing narratives on non-human processes, especially ones that spell disaster for human populations? Why are we so entranced by these (it really is like someone staring at a bonfire and stepping forward)? I can only imagine the numbers of followers of this theory (independent of any growth in evidence) will increase. Am I being pessimistic (if it is pessimistic) or is this only natural? Do we just love apocalii [yes, I'm inventing a word]?
post #23 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus Short View Post
"no"?

A reasoned argument with supporting evidence would be so preferable to simple denial...
If I didn't learn it by age 18 it must not be important, that's my motto. Not only is this 2012 business absolute nonsense; so too is the possibility of anything being true that hasn't already been proven to be.

I've noticed most people are far more skilled at simple denial than they are at reason. Practice makes perfect!

"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer

Whether the quote above covers this passing into a new cycle business, the idea it espouses is why I am skeptical of people's skepticism the way most people are skeptical of nearly every concept that hasn't already been irrefutably shown to be true. A lot of people seem to think that their skepticism somehow makes them discerning and intelligent, but really it just makes them run of the mill. The more discerning among us are the ones who are open to the possibility of revising truth. These individuals reject the monotonous collection of ideas that seems to be a comfort to most people.

For whatever reason, despite how many times truth has been revised in our history, the majority of the residents of any given time seem to embrace the idea that "Only now do we understand." I find it a remarkably boring attitude.

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
- Galileo Galilei
post #24 of 59
I feel I should point out that the magnetic polarity of this planet does periodically shift (north becomes south, south becomes north). When this happens there is an interim period during which it is sorting itself out and stabilizing. During this period (which will be long on our time scale), if humans are around, life on earth is REALLY going to suck and will probably change as we know it. That being said, I doubt highly that this will begin in 2012. But hey, you never know.
post #25 of 59
Thread Starter 
Fortunately, my Lavry has a polarity invert switch.

Here's a page on pole-shifts.

Here's another page of information on 2012 bringing in the Hopi. It predicts things will go downhill "in 2007" or "sooner if the present administration in the USA is re-elected". Obviously, have have some control over these events. There's also a nice breakdown of those that will remain in three dimensions, move to 4D or zoom up/in/out to 5D.
post #26 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessingx View Post
[Emphasis added by me] Just to be clear, from the above statements do you give the benefit of the doubt more to Planet-X theories than NASA statements?


---

A few things seem necessary to address.

1) Aside from how much the Mayan culture got right (zero, penicillin, exacting calendar, etc.), they got an awful lot more wrong from the modern perspective. You would think insight into this large, at least solar system wide process would sidestep much of the natural cultural evolution most civilizations go through.

2) Assuming at the height of the Mayan culture they were able to somehow decode these cycles of solar system or galaxy or universe, the larger question is do you think the solar system/galaxy/universe is tied to these rules? And we're talking much larger changes than cyclic magnetic shifts, etc. To believe some of these claims requires a whole, nearly metaphysical rulebook the universe has to operate under every X Earth years. I suppose it's the same question you have to apply to any religious system. Take a small belief system then inflate it to "world" that is well known to be more complicated than the beliefs. So we compromise the facts to bring it back inline. Seriously though, what evidence do we have that such an aligned cyclic nature is in place for the Mayans to tap in to?

3) Aside from the likelihood of change in 2011/2012, what is the fascination with imposing narratives on non-human processes, especially ones that spell disaster for human populations? Why are we so entranced by these (it really is like someone staring at a bonfire and stepping forward)? I can only imagine the numbers of followers of this theory (independent of any growth in evidence) will increase. Am I being pessimistic (if it is pessimistic) or is this only natural? Do we just love apocalii [yes, I'm inventing a word]?

Well, I look at it from this standpoint:
a) I don't believe NASA
b) even if NASA doesn't know about an assumed Planet-X doesn't mean it doesn't exist
c) even if Planet-X does exist and NASA knows about it, they certainly wouldn't tell you or I about it

So, in summation, I suppose I lend more credence to Planet-X theory, but in comparison to NASA, it isn't saying much at all. Interestingly enough, even NASA itself has suggested that there may be a very large object out in deep space which causes anomalies in the outer planetary revolutions around our Sun, possibly even our system being a binary system (two suns).

Haley's Comet ventures through every 76 years, hasn't broken the cycle since it was first discovered. It comes, it goes, and returns as scheduled. The planets of our solar system rotate and orbit as scheduled, they don't break their cycle either. If a Planet-X indeed exists (some say planet, others say brown dwarf star, others suggest giant comet, who knows?), it would make sense that it, too, comes and goes according to schedule.

Another term to look into is "catastrophism", a growing geologic theory that the Earth undergoes massive changes in a very brief timetable, and not over hundreds of thousands, even millions of years (think the movie "The Day After Tomorrow"). If this theory is indeed true, it MIGHT suggest that the Earth has some outside help (celestial event) in causing an almost instantaneous upheaval.

The unknown is exciting, even more so if it involves danger/potential death. Couple that with something completely out of human hands/control. There's your recipe for fascination and wonder in apocalypse theory.
post #27 of 59
Just great. The world is going to end the day before I turn 22.
post #28 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessingx View Post
Aside from how much the Mayan culture got right (zero, penicillin, exacting calendar, etc.), they got an awful lot more wrong from the modern perspective. You would think insight into this large, at least solar system wide process would sidestep much of the natural cultural evolution most civilizations go through.
It can be a risky business judging another civilization or an older civilization by our own standards. They were probably founded and built on entirely different principles and values. Yes, the Mayans got a lot of things wrong, but our own [often uncivil] civilization has gotten so many things wrong:

we've killed each other in horrible ways, and in unprecedented numbers

we've polluted the whole planet

we've wiped out whole species

we've become increasingly dependent on fragile/vulnerable technologies

we've turned our backs on the past, and fear the future

we've taken two critical scientific wrong turns: quantum physics over hyperdimensional physics, and the gravitational model of the universe over the electric model of the universe [no, I don't have time to do 20 Q's on this]

In short, our "civilization" is over-ripe for collapse, in large part due to the things we got wrong, and that may have NOTHING to do with 2012.

Laz
post #29 of 59
planet x doesn't exist. there is no evidence whatsoever. here, this page explains it in simple english. exitmundi is a fun read if you want to know every single way the Earth could cease to exist that is unlikely to happen.

the world will not end in 2012. sure, we have lots of problems going on in the world. that has nothing to do with the Mayan calender. yes, Earth's polarity will shift eventually; it is unlikely that that has anything to do with 2012 or the Mayan calender, since it has happened before, far before the Mayans even existed. the planets aligning hasn't torn the planet apart before.

i prefer "no" because i am lazy. i don't think that everything is fine and dandy. i also don't think we are ****ed over beyond belief and we are all going to die.
post #30 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk View Post
planet x doesn't exist. there is no evidence whatsoever. here, this page explains it in simple english. exitmundi is a fun read if you want to know every single way the Earth could cease to exist that is unlikely to happen.

the world will not end in 2012. sure, we have lots of problems going on in the world. that has nothing to do with the Mayan calender. yes, Earth's polarity will shift eventually; it is unlikely that that has anything to do with 2012 or the Mayan calender, since it has happened before, far before the Mayans even existed. the planets aligning hasn't torn the planet apart before.

i prefer "no" because i am lazy. i don't think that everything is fine and dandy. i also don't think we are ****ed over beyond belief and we are all going to die.

That site proves just about as much as the Planet-X theories themselves, which is, absolutely nothing. Who is the author of that site, anyway, and why would anyone take his word on the subject more than anyone else?
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