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Driving the TakeT H2 - Page 5

post #61 of 181
definitely worth trying a stax or stax compatible amp in 4 wire mode
without the bias, or a stax transformer box. Similar to electret mode.

If it works as i expect, the answer is probably obvious.
post #62 of 181
The SRD-4 would be the perfect fit since it doesn't have a bias supply.

So Doug, do you need a Stax to XLR cable?
post #63 of 181
If anyone has H2 and TR2, and a voltmeter capable of RMS measurement, please message me!
post #64 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post
definitely worth trying a stax or stax compatible amp in 4 wire mode
without the bias, or a stax transformer box. Similar to electret mode.

If it works as i expect, the answer is probably obvious.
So could one use a pro bias stax amplifier (I have a 717) with the H2 without the TR2 transformer with just a custom adapter? That would potentially save 76000 yen for the transformer box for those who have electrostatic amplifiers.
post #65 of 181
Someone needs to try it and find out.
post #66 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post
Someone needs to try it and find out.
Doug is going to ask for Dr. Takei's input on this and if he gives the go ahead, I'll make the adapter cable for him.
post #67 of 181
Tomorrow hopefully B0hdi will have the measurements Kevin asked me for when I asked him about an amp. Should be useful info. I really want an amp optimised to drive the H2 only.
post #68 of 181
So far Ive been able to drive the H2 directly from a bal. M^3 headamp (18Vpp), a Juli@ soundcard (bal. outputs @ ~14Vpp) and various speaker amps (~50Vpp). The main improvement one gets removing the TR2 from the chain is no more bass distortion and less bass rolloff (see pics attached - they use the same scale). The distortion and rolloff there has been confirmed by Mr T with both H2 loaded and unloaded.
post #69 of 181
I now have here a big Yamaha 2 channel (110 x 2) and an RMS voltmeter, will do some tests tonight.

Serk, did you find any benefit to using the TR2 over going TR2less, apart from higher SPL?

Would you say that it's best to remove the transformer, or that a transformer is a good idea due to impedance matching but the TR2 is not a suitable transformer?
post #70 of 181
Hard to say, my only high quality amp could drive the H2 to a low volume without the TR2. I matched SPL and compared TR2/no-TR2 at low volume with that amp, and I couldn't find any area where the TR2 had an improvement at that volume.

Not sure about the impedance matching issue, but right now I'm happy with the sound the H2 is producing driven by the grossly impedance mismatched M^3 (<0.05Ohm).
post #71 of 181
Well this Yamaha amp seems to not be working right so that sucks. Will try to figure it out tomorrow.
post #72 of 181
Driving the H2 with my Sonic Impact Super T and the TR2, I am overall quite happy with the sound. However, I am noticing a lack of bass extension with this amp which I did not experience with my 15 watt @ 8 ohms Advent 300. The Super T only gives 6 good watts @ 8 ohms, so with 16 ohms I guess it's about 3 watts. It looks like that's not enough power, so the amp search begins again! Too bad I'm out of money
post #73 of 181
Edit: Unbeknownst to me, the following happened with the mute button on the amp engaged, which cuts 20db... See over the page for further measurements.

OK I figured out what was wrong with the 110W Yamaha amp I borrowed from my friend. The loop out jumpers were missing...

So with that rectified I measured the voltage either side of the TR2 transformer, with a 440Hz sine wave.

With 1V in, I got 23.1 out with the H2 connected and 33.7 with the H2 disconnected.

With 10V in, I got 200 out with the H2 connected and 290 with the H2 disconnected.

With 15V in, I got 303 out with the H2 connected and 420 with the H2 disconnected and the Yamy smelt like hot electronics. Don't tell my friend! (JK Mike, it was fine)

After measuring with sine waves, listening to loud rock music with the amp at full output I saw well over 200V coming out of the TR2, peaks up to nearly 300. This was with an RMS voltmeter, ranging normally around 150-250 V for the section I was listening to (Propellerheads).

This was about as loud as anyone could ever want to listen to music, distortion wasn't bad though, the amp wasn't clipping or anything. For an equivalent listening level, bass was much better and deeper than with the RPX-33.

Listening to some Classical stuff at the same WFO level though, I would still want more power at times. Amazing sounds came out still, in the Shostakovitch piano concerto flac from the Philly Orchestra I could hear musicians breathing, coughing, sniffing, moving papers, their feet and heaps of new sounds I didn't hear before, all of which are at a minuscule volume level and unnoticeable at high volume with ED9 and RPX-33. Huge soundstage, very convincing for me!

Also, I tried the HP out of my imod and each little click of the volume wheel is highly audible, the sound pretty average. Through the imod and V-Cap dock, well that's a topic for another thread but I was grinning. I wasn't listening critically anyway tonight.

I did try the Yamy amp without the TR2, just made a 4 pin XLR female to banana adapter, and the sound was way too quiet for my likings. I didn't test properly as the house was noisy and I didn't have time.

So now I need an amp capable of well over 200V.

OR

A transformer that doesn't suffer from the bass roll off issues of the TR2.

Don't know which way to go, I have had some advice that Magnequest make excellent transformers, and other advice saying that transformers aren't the way to go, but a high voltage SET or SS amp is.

I respect both opinions a huge amount so will have to continue the research.

I did a little vid of one of the sine wave tests but the other vids are even worse quality so I won't bother:

http://media.putfile.com/Yamaha---TR2-test-440-Hz-Sine-
post #74 of 181
According to the specs, the ratio of the transformers is 1:20.92 so the measurements are correct. This is clearly electrostatic amp territory but many tube amp could be converted to Take T use by lifting the signal off the primary of the output transformer.
post #75 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post
According to the specs, the ratio of the transformers is 1:20.92 so the measurements are correct. This is clearly electrostatic amp territory but many tube amp could be converted to Take T use by lifting the signal off the primary of the output transformer.
Interesting, thanks. Don't really understand that 100% sorry, is the primary the wires before the output transformer? What does the ouutput transformer do in a tube amp? Does it increase the voltage as with the TR2? Or something else?

Any examples of suitable amps?
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