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AKG K240 Sextett--Grado'd AKG? - Page 57

post #841 of 1014

You shouldn't have a bass issue with these things.  I use a Yamaha CR-620 as a headphone amp and get more than enough.  For some recordings I put the bass down one notch to -1. What are your pads like?  Any wear?

post #842 of 1014
yea, the sextetts has strong bass extension and good high frequency extension to keep clarity. my lp's has very good clarity and very smooth midrange with strong bass extension. only gripe i have with them is i think is the upper treble region tad brighter then i like but only find issue with some tracks and the treble/top and air is not a quick/clean as my DF's. i like my DF's more than my sextetts due to the very quick clean treble and is more relaxed around upper treble to top while keeping a good flat(or close to it) air response. i still use my DF's as reference headphone. i run my sextetts off of speaker amps and find no issues with them besides my slight gripe with certain areas which are just minor. sextetts are still some of my favorite headphones.
post #843 of 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarphael View Post

Btw, I've been trying the Sony SA5000 pads on my LP's

i have to try that. never thought of using the sa5000 pads. it crossed my mind once for my df's but never for my sextetts. need to try that.
post #844 of 1014
Quote:

Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

BTW the Sextett has lots of similarities in sound to my favorite DJ100. DJ100 just has more sub-bass, thinner mids (but not too thin) and is slightly clearer. Both have very smooth treble, which is nice. I'd say the Sextett might be the closest match to the DJ100 i've found, but maybe not. I'll have to listen to these some more. Sextett seems to have more mid-bass than the DJ100.

 

 

I agree completely, the two are very similar sounding. Personally, I think the halfway between a Grado and the DJ100. Although I must say that I find the sextett (atleast on my vintage Marantz) to beat out the DJ100 in almost every catagory. It's just all around more involving, Although it doesn't seem to have quite as much bass as the DJ100, nor quite as extended and forward highs as the Grado's. All three however have very realistic mids, lively and luscious but still detailed and clean. I find that to be the most important part of the sound signature, for me.

post #845 of 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickmonk View Post

 

 

I agree completely, the two are very similar sounding. Personally, I think the halfway between a Grado and the DJ100. Although I must say that I find the sextett (atleast on my vintage Marantz) to beat out the DJ100 in almost every catagory. It's just all around more involving, Although it doesn't seem to have quite as much bass as the DJ100, nor quite as extended and forward highs as the Grado's. All three however have very realistic mids, lively and luscious but still detailed and clean. I find that to be the most important part of the sound signature, for me.

 

I listened to these last night again for about 5 hours. Didn't want to take them off! I'll need to listen to them for a few more weeks to figure out what exactly they do better or worse than my DJ100. I think they may be slightly more balanced sounding than my DJ100, but not 100% sure of this yet. I think one reason I get the impression of more treble on my DJ100 is that very treble happy (and harsh) recordings on my Sextett don't really bother my ears like they should. It seems like on all my other neutral headphones they SHOULD sound harsh and fatiguing. I mean garbage in garbage out right? It seems that many of my garbage tracks don't bother me too much on these.

 

I don't want to open up a can of worms, but I think the Mogami cable I have on it might roll off the treble slightly or tame it a bit. I think it's due to the high capacitance wire i'm using. I get this with the Canare, but less so with Mogami W2893.

 

Here's the strange thing too...it's easier to pick out the lower quality tracks with the Sextett compared to the DJ100, but yet the Sextett makes the bad stuff with the treble/mids cranked to high sound much easier on the ears. I know that makes no sense. Some of my FLAC files sound like 128kbps recordings on the Sextett. I kind of experienced this on the DT-880 and DT-770 600 ohm too.

 

The only thing that jumps out at me still is that female vocals seem very forward. Almost a bit too much, but I kind of like this.

 

The pads are brand new and I have some Beyerdynamic pleather pads I might try. After months of use those things get really soft like memory foam almost. Beyerdynamic pads fit but it ruins them for use on a Beyer headphone so don't use them unless you want to destroy them!

 

I don't have any older receivers, but I should try them out of my 4 year old Onkyo. I never use headphones with that thing, but it's worth a try.

 

I think the forward upper mids could be to my amp/dac combination. I think the HRT MSII MIGHT have very slightly forward upper mids. Not too badly.

 

 

BTW does anyone know offhand if you can still buy the gold screws for the Sextett? It's the one behind the button. Looks like it's not a standard screw. You put the cap onto it and the outer screw screws into the large gold one. I found one that fits but it looks really bad.

 

Going to try them with the E9 tonight biggrin.gif Might not be too bad actually.


Edited by tdockweiler - 5/13/12 at 10:48am
post #846 of 1014

Actually, when a recording sounds so bad that it is harsh, it is almost always the headphones.  Headphones commit much greater sins than 99.999% of recordings ever made.  What you're hearing as harsh is a problem with the recording combining with a peak/resonance in the headphone in the same spot, and it's like when 2 waves combine in the ocean.  Not pretty.  While this may not happen with a perfect recording because it's so far from the threshold of pain and there's room for these grave errors in the headphone, you can't blame the recordings for this pain.  On truly neutral gear, you would hear the problems in the recording, but they would never be harsh or fatiguing. 

 

The idea on Head-fi that neutral = harsh is complete rubbish.  Comes from people making excuses for crap gear. 

 

So the Sextetts are probably more neutral. 

post #847 of 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

Actually, when a recording sounds so bad that it is harsh, it is almost always the headphones.  Headphones commit much greater sins than 99.999% of recordings ever made.  What you're hearing as harsh is a problem with the recording combining with a peak/resonance in the headphone in the same spot, and it's like when 2 waves combine in the ocean.  Not pretty.  While this may not happen with a perfect recording because it's so far from the threshold of pain and there's room for these grave errors in the headphone, you can't blame the recordings for this pain.  On truly neutral gear, you would hear the problems in the recording, but they would never be harsh or fatiguing. 

 

The idea on Head-fi that neutral = harsh is complete rubbish.  Comes from people making excuses for crap gear. 

 

So the Sextetts are probably more neutral. 

 

Maybe this is true, but I've never experienced this much. Maybe none of us at all here have truly 100% flat and neutral headphones/amps. I mean, what headphone is really? It seems that even the Sextett isn't, but it does sound that way, but maybe not in it's graphs.

 

I have some really, really harsh and fatiguing albums from a Japanese singer named Hitomi. I mean they're so bad they're unlistenable. It just seems hardly possible that it's my headphones, but you may be right. What I can do is take that recording (FLAC from original CD) and listen to it on a dozen headphones I own and it sounds just as bad on each of them. Same on the Q701, K601, KRKs, K240 Studio and whatever else I have. Maybe none of the headphones I have are completely flat. Similar results when switching amps and DAC. I basically know what tracks are going to sound bad in my collection.

 

Now if I listen to these garbage tracks on an HD-600, HD-650 or HD-598 they're not harsh or fatiguing at all. I kind of have always thought it was due to recessed treble or not very forward upper mids. I think the HD-600 and my HD-598 are what I pick when I don't want to be bothered by my bad sounding garbage tracks. I don't think they're neutral and the HD-598 has forward mids (not upper mids I believe). I still always felt these would "tame" my recordings with weird treble/upper mids peaks. It just doesn't seem like the HD-600's treble is really neutral, but maybe.

 

BTW do you find the HD-600 neutral (sounding)? I always found it seems to change how my recordings should sound too much, yet people say it's some sort of flat studio monitor. Sure doesn't sound that way to me.

 

I'll have to test some things more. Maybe I can try the O2 (if it's as un-colored as people say) and test some other DACs etc.

 

Strangely enough with my DJ100, all these harsh recordings don't sound as bad as they should on some of my other headphones. I would say they're not too fatiguing. You'd think that with it's forward upper mids it'd be an issue, but it's really not.

 

I need to find some more of these truly flat headphones. Maybe the DT-250? Those graphs look pretty decent and i've heard it uses a tweaked DT-770 driver. The Beyer DJX-1 looks ruler flat too if I remember right. So does the K601, but I don't hear it that way.

 

I think the most balanced sounding headphone i've heard was the K501. Probably isn't, but it sure sounded like it. I think I remember everything sounding good on that thing. Don't ask me how, but the HD-598 sounds really smooth to my ears. No, not neutral. It's really weird saying this since it's supposed to have forward mids. Nothing it it's signature jumps out at me really. I don't know how they managed that. Yet, it's still a little more engaging and fun to listen to than the HD-600.


Edited by tdockweiler - 5/13/12 at 11:57am
post #848 of 1014

Yes, that's because most headphones are full of resonance problems, and that's what causes the harshness- when a recording lights up those problems in the headphone.  When these colored headphones sound good it's simply because the recording doesn't have information in that range. 

 

Testing headphones on perfect recordings would be like trying to test a car's handling on a perfectly straight road going 20mph.  You need tight, unexpected curves to know how a car handles when it's weight gets thrown around.  A straight, perfect road tells you nothing.   And blaming the recording for harshness would be like blaming the curve in the road when a Buick handles horribly through curves.  Of course every once in a while, a curve will be banked the wrong way or something and it's partly to blame.  But the Buick is still making it way worse than it should be.  A Porche would be able to handle even an improperly banked curve without much problem. 

 

The HD600 is pretty neutral and also pretty free of resonances which is why it doesn't sound as fatiguing.

 

The Sextett is actually full of ringing and resonances, but somehow they are not in areas that humans are sensitive to.  Which I think is because someone tuned them by ear, someone with good hearing over at AKG in the 70's.  But it's probably what keeps them from sounding very refined in the treble. 


Edited by rhythmdevils - 5/13/12 at 12:01pm
post #849 of 1014

The first time I heard a HD800 at a meet, one of the CDs I listened to was a Norah Jones CD.  It lasted about 15 seconds before I couldn't stand it anymore.  It was definitely the recording and not the gear.  Everything else I listened to was fantastic.  That said, I've never ran into that problem with Sextetts.  They're pretty forgiving.

post #850 of 1014

But the HD800 is tipped up in the treble. 

post #851 of 1014
i think the sextetts are pretty much as resolving as most(not all but, most) headphones when it comes to information extraction i feel. that's if rest like your amp and source is pretty much transparent itself without adding any/much influences to the signal( not saying completely cause no matter what not all gear is perfect). i think the sextetts do well on letting you know how it is despite it's few flaws it has for itself.
post #852 of 1014

Right, because of the last posts I am almost considering the HD600 to complete the dynamics collection despite being biased to thinking the HD250 II is one of the best Sennheisers ever made...

post #853 of 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

But the HD800 is tipped up in the treble. 

 

Maybe brick walled recordings are worse with headphones tipped to the treble but I don't think so.  Just the other day I listened to a horribly brick walled concert tape that was unlistenable with my PX100 from my iPod.  I checked with my T30 just to make sure and it confirmed it.  The Norah Jones is listenable with both rigs.  It sure wasn't with the HD800 played out of a TTVJ Millet hybrid.

post #854 of 1014

I assume you guys, who listen to CD's, are listening to the best possible masterings out there, right?  If you're listening to remastered CD's (and I'm not saying they are all bad but most are) then that's really going to put a dent in the sound quality of any headphones you're using.  I'm starting to get to the point where I can't even listen to CD's at all anymore...just vinyl, which for me was the biggest leap in sound quality I have ever heard.  More so than upgrading my speakers/headphones/amps, etc.

post #855 of 1014

To some extent I agree. If the storage medium for the recording is analogue and the changeover to the digital CD is made with keeping the sound analogue you can still have a very nice sounding CD.   I can still remember reading the reports on digitalizing vinyl via older CD-recorders. 

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