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K1000 w/ Sub Woofer: The Sequel (mini blog) - Page 2

post #16 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregBe View Post
How are you guys setting your subwoofers up to work with your headphones? I can't seem to figure out how to run my sub without my speakers being on.
In their user manual, ACI lists a number of ways to integrate with a system.

We would need to know your configuration of gear (along with what types of inputs and outputs are supported on the gear) to answer your question. The answer may also vary depending on the brand or model sub.

Share you config and I'll take a shot at it if I can. Your other option is to ask a vendor like ACI, which have a "circle" set up on Audiocircle.com. Post questions there and they will be answered by ACI owners and Mike from ACI (Mike has been very responsive to my questions).

For the K1000 specific questions, again feel free to ask here.
post #17 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore View Post
I lived with the 2W for over ten years, and never had a problem (with 2ch speakers). It was always a benefit. The Vandersteen 2W takes a very different approach to integration and slope, so its not like any other sub I'm aware of. The approach worked great with my AE-1s, but presented a number of issues when attempting to integrate with Ks.

As far as setting the volume level, the best suggestion I can offer is to find a good balance with bass heavy music played about as loud as you would typically want for normal listening. The bass should then be brought up to a point where it fills in the bottom end, but does not draw attention to itself (i.e. you should not "hear" the sub while it's playing -- but will instantly know it's missing if you were to turn it off). Once you find the high end for the loudness setting, then you may want to turn it down a hair or two.

Then over the course of a few listening sessions, you may make a few minor adjustment in volume, again looking for a point where it does not draw attention to itself.

Once you find this level (with bass heavy material), you should be able to pretty much forget about it and just listen (i.e. don't attempt to tweak it for different listening volumes or source material).

I went so far as to make a small red dot at my preferred loudness level. Then when I was in the mood to tweak, I might bring it up or down a bit just to hear the effect. Usually I ended up going back to the red dot.

Again this is mostly for speakers. I'm going to need some play time with the ACI to determine how well it does.

Here are some of the features offered by ACI that I believe will help with integration...

1.) Adjustable crossover frequency (common to most subs, but not offered on the Vandersteen 2W).

2.) Well in fact there are two knobs for crossover frequency, each at 12 db / octave. Set them both the same, and you get 24 db per octave (which Louis commented on AudioCircle would be good for his single driver Hemps). Or set them at different frequencies, so you might begin a more gentle 12 db / octave at a frequency where sub and Ks need to overlap, then dial the second one at a lower frequency where the sub needs to take total control (at this point the slope will jump to 24 db / octave).

3.) No crossover required on the main speakers to detract from the sound quality. This also means the sub can be dropped from the system by simply turning it off, leaving the mains (speakers or K1000s) running full range, as if the sub was not even in the system (like when your significant other is sleeping). [Again, this feature was not available on the 2W.]

4.) The 10" ACI is reportedly very fast -- speed is needed to keep up with K1000s or Omega Hemp drivers. Owners on Audiocircle report good results matching ACIs to both Hemps and Maganapans (which both represent tough challenges for sub woofers).
Oh! I forgot a biggie -- 5.) Continuously adjustable phase control. This should help to get the sub and the Ks phase aligned. [Again this feature not offered on the 2W.]
post #18 of 43
Thread Starter 
Second day with NO MAIL!

We moved into a rental house a month ago, waiting on our new home to be built. Someone at the post office must have their wires crossed.

Damn, I really wanted to hear the X-2 (due today via Priority Mail) and take a first listen to the sub. Looks like I'm going to have to dig through boxes in the basement to find a generic IC.

I guess heariing the ACI will need to wait another day
post #19 of 43
Sounds like you have a handle on the issue I mentioned above.

Hope your package arrives soon... waiting is the worst when excited
post #20 of 43
i use a powered sub in my speaker setup and i feel your pain regarding the volume adjustment. different genres of music lend themselves to different ideal bass levels. i have found a decent medium and its just like Alwayswantmore describes, feel the bass but dont let it draw attention to itself. but every now and then i will still have to make a minute gain adjustment to suit a certain recording.

i like having this control a powered sub offers, i would be worried that running a set of speakers with internal subs that are powered from the main amp would sometimes be bass heavy and sometimes be lean depending on the particular music, in which case there would be no recourse, just have to live with it. am i wrong in assuming this?
post #21 of 43
Thread Starter 
Turns out that we have a new postal guy on our route. He has been forwarding our mail to the people we rent from, so our mail is somewhere in South Florida (we live in South Carolina). At this point in time I have no idea when I will see the X-2 This sucks, because I've read so much positive feedback on this cable I wanted to hear it in combination with the SDv2 to hear the total package.

I did use a cheapo cable to connect the sub, and got in some decent listening time. First impressions are very favorable. I ended up with the crossover at about 65hz or some times split one crossover at 65 and the other slighly higher to get a smoother transition.

My first impression is that the ACI definately puts back what I've been missing. And because the frequency is set so low, and the Ks are running full range, nothing is being taken away from what the Ks already do (i.e. no degredation of K's normal frequency range).

I'ld like to spend more time with them, and also give them a shot with the Hemps. But so far I like what I hear.
post #22 of 43
A post above brought up a point I hadn't considered, yet makes perfect sense. The K1000 are headspeakers; why not listen with your floor system? The sound is going to leak eather way, and SQ with a floor system is frequently seen as more appealing than standard headphones.
post #23 of 43
Thread Starter 
Ori's X-2 did show yesterday (Friday). Was able to listen, but too late at night to use the sub. It is a very nice cable. The combination of X-2 and SDv2 is detailed but very smooth. Smoother than I am used to. I'm going to need a fews days to sort things out. Plus hope to try with woofer later today.
post #24 of 43
I recently got myself a pair of K1000's and with peoples comments about how they don't have as much bass punch as other phones I was dimly wondering what sort of effect adding a sub-woofer would have.

Glad to see I'm not the only person that has been wondering this

We have an AAD E-6 sub woofer in our lounge room system that doesn't get much use so I was thinking of connecting it up and seeing how things go. Its a little busy at the moment so I don't think I'll get a chance to hook it up any time soon tho

What would you recommend as the best way to hook up the sub?
The sub itself has line level In/Out sockets so that would seem to be the best starting point as far as cost goes (put it in between the DAC and the headphone amp).

Or is there a better way?
post #25 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsu View Post
I recently got myself a pair of K1000's and with peoples comments about how they don't have as much bass punch as other phones I was dimly wondering what sort of effect adding a sub-woofer would have.

Glad to see I'm not the only person that has been wondering this

We have an AAD E-6 sub woofer in our lounge room system that doesn't get much use so I was thinking of connecting it up and seeing how things go. Its a little busy at the moment so I don't think I'll get a chance to hook it up any time soon tho

What would you recommend as the best way to hook up the sub?
The sub itself has line level In/Out sockets so that would seem to be the best starting point as far as cost goes (put it in between the DAC and the headphone amp).

Or is there a better way?
Does your DAC have a volume control? Because you will need the inputs to the sub to be on the same volume control the used to control the amp.
post #26 of 43
Thread Starter 
I have not had much time to listen or write. But I did get a chance to run through about a dozen cuts this morning with the entire system in place.

I used the new X-2 cable between my Wadia and the Sig 30, and like others have said, it really takes the Sig 30 to another level. It cost $650, which is almost as much as the sub, so it needs to sound pretty good to justify the cost. Ori also indicates that there is virtually no break in time required on this cable.

I have my AudioPath 8-wire Silver running between the Sig 30 and the ACI sub (this is a very good cable in it's own right. I also have a longer cable coming from ACI so I can have more flexibility with placement.

The ACI settings are pretty much as I indicated above.

Everything sounded great. Tremendous detail, yet very smooth. I took out a number of cuts that I know contain deep bass, and even without break in or experimenting with different settings, the integration was seamless, and the deep bass really was the topper to getting great sound.

With the exception of the improvements made by the SDv2 and X-2, the biggest difference adding the sub is that the Ks now sound much closer to a good speaker / sub combo.

I have yet to try the Hemps, but so far I am very happy with the sound quality and what it does to the listening experience.

BTW. The cabinet on the unit looks great -- very nicely put together, with a very nice looking satin finish. The knobs on the other hand, have a little wiggle room, making the feel like they are not top-shelf quality. I point this out not knowing whether they are good, bad or indifferent, but they do not have the rock solid feel that you find on really pricy gear. On the other hand, the sub sounds great, and IMO $750 is not a lot of money for a musical sub (the Vandersteen was $1250 + the cost of a mandatory crossover).

I have a set of spike coming from ACI, and ACI recommends a minimum of 60 hours for breakin. So the best in terms of SQ is yet to come. But what I hear now is better than the 2W. I attribute most of this to the lower crossover point (65 vs 80), and steeper slope (24 vs 6 db/octave).

Over time I will do more experimenting with crossover points and room placement. But even out of the box I like what I'm hearing.

__________________
post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayswantmore View Post
Does your DAC have a volume control? Because you will need the inputs to the sub to be on the same volume control the used to control the amp.
I realized this may be a problem when I started to take a closer look. The Spitfire is a straight in-out DAC, nothing fancy, no controls at all. Which means that the only other alternative is to hook up the sub to the speaker out terminals in parallel with the K1000s. Correct?

Well either that or look at some different hardware. Although that being said I'm running the DAC from a Mac Mini + iTunes. Although the system won't allow me adjust the digital optical volume, I can still adjust it within iTunes itself. Hmmm....

Might just be easier to hook the sub up to the speaker terminals all being said and done.
post #28 of 43
Hey, my pre amp has a sub-output... would that work?
post #29 of 43
I could never live with this idea. I've tried this trick as soon as I had my K1000, but could not stand the distortion.

It might be that my listening room is not the right size.
post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x331m View Post
I could never live with this idea. I've tried this trick as soon as I had my K1000, but could not stand the distortion.

It might be that my listening room is not the right size.
Here is a suggestion for using the K1000s with a sub to minimize distortion: try adjusting these three parameters until you find the ideal combination - crossover point, subwoofer volume (relative to K1000 volume) and listening distance from sub. It might also help to sit facing the subwoofer (you may have heard that subs are not directional, but I have found that not to be the case when listening to a sub and earspeakers).
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