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I hereby announce Team AKG's entry to the field... - Page 4  

post #46 of 86
lini:

I got to compare the hp890 and the k501 the other day.

I have to admit the philips were pretty impressive at the beginning. Sure, they are more 'exciting' than the AKGs.
The 501 are very accurate and neutral and it is easy to mistake
this for being boring.
But after 5 minutes or so I really started to prefer the AKGs.
The 890s go really deep but lack the proper midrange.
The AKGs however, have very little colouration and I
was very impressed. I'll try to A/B them with Senns asap.

Bye

Redwoood
post #47 of 86
Quote:
Has anyone bought this dreadful, boring, bass-less, unmusical, power-hungry and distancing AKGs K 301/401/501 yet?
I resemble that remark!
post #48 of 86
Me too. I think his ears are broken.
post #49 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomcat
Am I too late? Has anyone bought this dreadful, boring, bass-less, unmusical, power-hungry and distancing AKGs K 301/401/501 yet?
Well Tomcat, like I said in my writeup, I didn't find the DT770's to be as musical as you always say they are. They sounded too muddy. The soundstage was good as well as the bass extension, but the bass was more prominent to my ears than the K401's is. I didn't really like that presentation. It made everything sound congested or something. They were also strange in that they didn't get large enough to fit my head just right, something I've never encountered. But hey, at least I liked them more than the HD600's...

As for the K401's being unmusical, I definitely disagree with that. I think they're very musical. But that's me.
post #50 of 86
I think it's that tendency people have to want to make sure they hate EVERYTHING accept for the one thing they love, so they're sure they're happy with them.

The K401s definatly sound very different. I think either you love it, or you hate it. I never found the soundstage to sound "false" though. Whats that all about?

I think he's just mad it's bigger then the one on his Beyers.
post #51 of 86
Also, I think I might note..

It's tasteless to bash other headphones, anyway. Especially ones assumed innacurate.. When it comes to innacurate headphones, everyone prefers something different. It's like saying apple A sucks, because apple B is sweeter, when 50% of the people prefer sweeter apples. It's silly.
post #52 of 86
Tomcat has strong opinions...unfortunately I'm starting to see the light in a lot of them. His complaints on the AKG's are exactly like mine...just multiplied 10x. In fact I kinda noticed that for a lot of his opinions lol...but when it comes down to it I find it very irksome that he still makes a good argument even though it may not be to the same degree, that 1/10th of a point still matters. For example he would say the DT831/931 are hellishly bright, and when it comes down to it, he has a valid point.

Grrrrr.
Tomcat knows what he wants in music...and I'd be damned if I didn't want it too. I also would be interested to see what he thought about Grados...lini should show him the SR-80's or something. Lol or pay Gradoistcool a visit haha.

I do wanna check out those Beyers of his.

I'm not saying everyone's taste will be like Tomcats and agree with him...I'm just saying they are starting to ring true for me.

Heh, I popped in an old classic I haven't heard for awhile, Metallica Ride The Lightning. And through my Beyers I was hearing all sorts of stuff I haven't heard before...mostly how ****ty the disc sounded and how badly it seemed to be produced. I was thinking "weird" I've enjoyed them with Ety's before and they are extremely detailed, not to mention the Grados sound good with em. Tried the Grados and the details and errors faded away cause of its less revealing and slight smear/coloration that actually made it sound tons better. But tried the Ety's, and you could hear the errors...but the magic about Ety's is that although it is very revealing and accurate, it will be revealing and emphasize the MUSIC much more than the errors to me. The Beyers seemed very intent on emphasizing errors than the music. Finally I could say that the Beyers just do better with extremely refined music and poor with unrefined music...but the Ety's do it right wheter refined or unrefined IMO. And I am much more preferential when it comes down to how albums like Ride the Lightning should sound compared to more refined music since it probably is some of the first CD's I've really gotten attached to.

Anyhow, that doesn't mean you'll grow to hate AKG's. I still like my Beyers even though I know Tomcat has valid points...just multipled 10x. AKG soundstage started wearing thin on me(took a very long time though), when I figured out it made any recording sound very spacious. This is great when you listen to music that normally sounds like its recorded in a closet like a lot of rock. Its a bit strange with recordings that already contains enough ambience and soundstage and starts to sound false in those situations. Just IMO. In the end the AKG's were still a favorite of mine.
post #53 of 86
I think he's way to critical. I was worried about trying the Beyers, or the HD580s, because I heard they were so revealing. Most of my recordings are mediocre at best, and I hate to throw them all out and start over with only the "finest" in order to achieve audio nirvana.

I believe this is what they call "Audio Hell".

Perhaps the soundstage is fake. It does add spaciousness to a lot of my recordings, though, and I like it.

Hrmph!

I also dont think anyone should be driven "away" from these headphones because of someones extreme opinion. Everyone has different tastes, listens to different music, etc. These still stand to me, as a great pair of headphones for $120.

They still have a wide soundstage, arguably "fake" I suppose. While listening to the few good recordings I do have, I didnt really notice anything bad. I even noticed sounds coming from above and below, which sounded pretty cool. Hadnt noticed these on the other headphones I had, which cost a little less, or even more then the AKGs.

They DO sound very different. They have a really "smooth" sortof sound to them. INCLUDING, the bass. It almost sounds soft, which to some, may be a bad thing. Others, perhaps good.
post #54 of 86
As I see it, Neruda has valid comments on the strengths of these AKG's...and Tomcat probably has valid comments on the weaknesses of them. The truth is typically always somewhere in the middle.
post #55 of 86
Every headphone has strenghts and weaknesses.

I still love these things.
post #56 of 86
I think every discussion ends as soon as someone says he just plain enjoys a certain headphone. Why shouldn't he? Enjoying one's music is all one can ask for. If Neruda and Xander enjoy their K 401s - why not? No one could tell them they shouldn't.

It's just that I have never liked those AKGs. Or Senns. And convincing someone of the merits of the Beyer 770 Pros isn't exactly easy. Maybe that is the reason I try to compensate for the lack of manpower at Team Beyer with loudness.

This muddiness vs. airiness controversy is quite intriguing. When I listened to the closed 770 Pros, I had a similar impression at first. The 990 Pros, that I knew pretty well by then, seemed "airier", more "spacious". Their soundstage seemed simply larger to me. But at the same time, I realized that I enjoyed the 770 Pros more. I perceived them to be even smoother and more engaging. And warmer. And this compared with a headphone that is probably warmer than most any other higher-price headphone out there (well, the Beyer 250 has similar tonal balance). Now that I am very familiar with both the 770 and the 990, I have realized that this "airiness" of the soundstage is somewhat artificial. That the added detail is indeed added and does nothing to better convey music. The 770s are even more natural and have a more believable and deeper soundstage. And as I have said above, they have better dynamic coherence. And to me, it is their very homgenousness that doesn't let them get in the way of the music. I think, it is indeed their natural warmth, that lets them sound more transparent.

I feel that most headphones sound rather thin, that they have far too prominent treble and that this screws up their timing, their transparency and their ability to involve the listener. Considering the fact that most highly regarded headphones have a brighter tonal balance than the professional Beyers and try to provide "detail", and that it's detail, many of us are after, my preferences must seem rather extreme, I guess. But that's how I hear it.
post #57 of 86
I really wish I could check out these Beyers.

There really arent any hi-fi shops around here, so it was hard to make a decision. It was a stretch just ordering online with the K401s.

Thin, is how I would describe the Grado SR80s. The K401s, to me, seem to have a full sound, though the bass doesnt extend down the spectrum very far (it rolls of drasticly at 42hz to my ear, while running a sweep test). I'm not a fan of tons of bass, and to me these seem balanced, and far from thin. I wouldent describe the HD580s or HD600s as thin, either. What did you think about those two phones? Balanced is more like it, though they still dont extend very low. It's like listening to a medium sized pair of bookshelf speakers.
post #58 of 86
The thing with me as well, is that I've been playing Guitar for a while, and even filled in as backup a few times for friends. Being in the studio, listening to a 2x12 cabinate with a Mesa bass head, with the bass kicked up high, I cant say as though theres any real BOOM BOOM going on... Each note has that bass guitar definition and sound, with it's true natural bass, which sounds like.. Well, a bass guitar at a low frequency. When I listen to a good recording, and put the K401s on, it sounds like it's in perspective. When I put my friends Sony headphones on for example, which have pumped up bass, it's blech... Theres like all this bass that sounds like its coming from the 30-40hz range that doesnt belong to anything.. It's just THERE. I hate that! It's just as bad to me, as having pumped up treble (the Grados).
post #59 of 86
Hey Tomcat so you're saying the DT770's have a similar tonal balance of the DT250? No one really seems to complain about 250 tonal balance...in fact its regarded as a pretty accurate phone. Also its funny how the Beyer line-up you love is all pro-audio models which in fact should be more accurate. But their hi-fi models tout too much treble and seem to measure flatter, which seems like a reversal of sorts.

I can't decide between 770/990...

As far as bass...each company presents it a little different. From what I've heard of Beyer bass...no complaints. I preferred AKG bass to Senn bass. I still like Beyer bass the most in a full-size can, even over Sony V6 bass.

Hmmm I know Kshaft might still have 990's...I think aos too...I wish they would be a little louder too lol. And rodchenko I think is getting 770's so I can't wait for that either.

http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/mar99/a...essentials.htm

That link lists the 770 as a studio essential. Hmmmm Sony V6's really aren't bright at all...neither are Ety's. And apparently you love the pro-audio Beyers. Maybe brightness is the illusive devil that pretends to be accurate and detailed but isn't.
post #60 of 86
"But their hi-fi models tout too much treble and seem to measure flatter"

Maybe this just shows how misleading steady-tone frequency response measurements can be, when it comes to real life dynamic and transient musical signals.

I didn't know this review in "Sound on Sound" magazine, and it's a very favourable one. Two quotes:

"Soundwise, the DT770s don't display any of the boxy characteristics of earlier closed models and they present the mid and high frequencies extremely clearly, responding well to dynamic transients."

"Of course listening on headphones is a different experience to listening on loudspeakers, but the overall tonal balance is surprisingly close to that of a pair of top-flight monitors."

What can I say: those people have ears.

This review is from 1999, so they might be talking about the old 600 Ohm version. The new 250 Ohm version of the 770s is probably better - I know that the 250 Ohm version of the 990s is an improvement over the old one.

Tim D, it would be great if you could try both the 770s and 990s and tell us what you think about them. I'd love to read your review.
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