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Woo6 versus Doge 6210 shootout

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 
I went to Aaron's place today and we had a minimeet. What a blast! As you all know, the Woo6 and Doge 6210 are transformer-coupled tube amps that are known to sound tubey, unlike the Darkvoices and many OTLs I've heard which sound very solid state. They are also known to be able to drive low impedance phones well. The Woo6 and Doge use different tubes, but are about the same size. The build quality of the Woo6 is very nice, but my Doge 6210 was also well built. I've seen other Doge 6210 that were poorly built, but those are limited to ones sold by a certain dealer that will remain unnamed, because he is a member of this forum whom you all know. Neither the Woo6 nor the Doge 6210 has any hum. The Doge 6210 does have the small advantage of preamp capability, though.

Both our amps were not stock. Mine is using the GE EL84 with GE 5751 as driver tubes, and I switched out the mylar .22uF coupling capacitor for a film one. Meanwhile, Aaron mentioned that he spent more money on his tubes than the Woo6 amp itself. So basically you have two maxed out amps going that each other's throats. Well, let's get to the point: the sound. You guys will not beleive this, but they sound the same! Somehow we had picked just the right tubes for our respective amps to make both amps sound indistinguishable, and the different interconnects we used made far greater difference than the difference between the two amps. I'm both surprised at the massive difference the interconnects made, while the amps did not make any difference with the ATH AD2000 headphones and Sinnheiser HD600 and Sinnheiser HD650 headphones. However, my Doge 6210 did not drive my low-impedance 25-ohm current-hungry Denon D2000s. It was a little muddy in the lower midrange because the dampening was poor. The Woo6 used a lower impedance output transformer so it is clearly better for ultra low-impedance phones, which pretty much only include the Denons. The Woo6 is a very good amp indeed, and Aaron has figured out what the best tubes for it are, so you guys can ask him how to configure the Woo6. Both these amps sound amazing and you can't go wrong with either of them, especially since they can be configured to sound the same. If they were the same price though, I would get the Woo6 because it works better with my Denons. Hmmm... but on the other hand, the Woo6 tubes get hotter than the Doge 6210 tubes and since my amp sits near my legs the cooler-running Doge might actually suit me better. There were incidences today where I touched the Woo6's tubes and burned my fingers, and later Aaron did the same thing (and burned his fingers), while the Doge's tubes you can touch.
post #2 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by cotdt View Post
I went to Aaron's place today and we had a minimeet. What a blast! As you all know, the Woo6 and Doge 6210 are transformer-coupled tube amps that are known to sound tubey, unlike the Darkvoices and many OTLs I've heard which sound very solid state. They are also known to be able to drive low impedance phones well. The Woo6 and Doge use different tubes, but are about the same size. The build quality of the Woo6 is very nice, but my Doge 6210 was also well built. I've seen other Doge 6210 that were poorly built, but those are limited to ones sold by a certain dealer that will remain unnamed, because he is a member of this forum whom you all know. Neither the Woo6 nor the Doge 6210 has any hum. The Doge 6210 does have the small advantage of preamp capability, though.

Both our amps were not stock. Mine is using the GE EL84 with GE 5751 as driver tubes, and I switched out the mylar .22uF coupling capacitor for a film one. Meanwhile, Aaron mentioned that he spent more money on his tubes than the Woo6 amp itself. So basically you have two maxed out amps going that each other's throats. Well, let's get to the point: the sound. You guys will not beleive this, but they sound the same! Somehow we had picked just the right tubes for our respective amps to make both amps sound indistinguishable, and the different interconnects we used made far greater difference than the difference between the two amps. I'm both surprised at the massive difference the interconnects made, while the amps did not make any difference with the ATH AD2000 headphones and Sinnheiser HD600 and Sinnheiser HD650 headphones. However, my Doge 6210 did not drive my low-impedance 25-ohm current-hungry Denon D2000s. It was a little muddy in the lower midrange because the dampening was poor. The Woo6 used a lower impedance output transformer so it is clearly better for ultra low-impedance phones, which pretty much only include the Denons. The Woo6 is a very good amp indeed, and Aaron has figured out what the best tubes for it are, so you guys can ask him how to configure the Woo6. Both these amps sound amazing and you can't go wrong with either of them, especially since they can be configured to sound the same. If they were the same price though, I would get the Woo6 because it works better with my Denons. Hmmm... but on the other hand, the Woo6 tubes get hotter than the Doge 6210 tubes and since my amp sits near my legs the cooler-running Doge might actually suit me better. There were incidences today where I touched the Woo6's tubes and burned my fingers, and later Aaron did the same thing (and burned his fingers), while the Doge's tubes you can touch.
Nice... thanks!! I was also impressed by the W6. its a great RS1 amp IMHO. Curious... did you find the W6 to be a lower-gain circuit than the Doge? I was kind of surprised I had to turn the knob to 12:00-1:00 positions, and that was with my RS1.
post #3 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer5150 View Post
Nice... thanks!! I was also impressed by the W6. its a great RS1 amp IMHO. Curious... did you find the W6 to be a lower-gain circuit than the Doge? I was kind of surprised I had to turn the knob to 12:00-1:00 positions, and that was with my RS1.
yeah the Doge has higher gain. Both these amps should work well with 32ohm Grados.
post #4 of 38
Out of curiosity what source was used?
post #5 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessingx View Post
Out of curiosity what source was used?
we used three sources:

1)sacdmods maxed out Sony CD Player with DEXA-Clock upgrade and Zapfilter
2)Zhaolu 2.5A Oritek
3)Zhaolu 2.5A Zapfilter
post #6 of 38
This is very interesting indeed! For us who are not in the loop, can you please tell us how much each amp costs?
post #7 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dept_of_Alchemy View Post
This is very interesting indeed! For us who are not in the loop, can you please tell us how much each amp costs?
Doge 6210 is $425 from pacificvalve.com and WooAudio 6 is $570 from wooaudio.com. Our amps were maxed with NOS tubes and costed somewhat more.
post #8 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by cotdt View Post
we used three sources:

1)sacdmods maxed out Sony CD Player with DEXA-Clock upgrade and Zapfilter
2)Zhaolu 2.5A Oritek
3)Zhaolu 2.5A Zapfilter
OT here: How does the OMZ compare to the Zapfiltered ZL?
post #9 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrh0413 View Post
OT here: How does the OMZ compare to the Zapfiltered ZL?
Ha! For that good stuff you will have to wait for tomorrow!
post #10 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by cotdt View Post
Ha! For that good stuff you will have to wait for tomorrow!
i hate you i hate you i hate you...
post #11 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by cotdt View Post
The Doge 6210 does have the small advantage of preamp capability, though.
Actually Jack can customised the WA6 to include a pre-amp circuit, though this will cost additional US$100+ to the amp. This brings to another point, ordering a WA6 will allow more customisation / tuning preference and I think this is attractive to some.

FWIW.
F. Lo
post #12 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrh0413 View Post
i hate you i hate you i hate you...
The guy should be jailed and have his gear taken away. Making people wait a whole day is morally reprehensible! lol
post #13 of 38
This is a great and most revealing result, which goes to show that people and their sense of music go far beyond technics and individual products.
Can you tell us more of the Woo6's sound in this refined configuration, not necessary compared to other amps ? I'm most interested in the particular flavour of this amp, what does it 'personally' contribute to the sound, like warmth, brightness, musicality, body etc. And yes, mostly on Senns
Thanks.
post #14 of 38
Thread Starter 
the sound of both these amps depend a lot on the tubes that are used. the way they were configured, they were warm and have body. they are just as bright as any solid state amp, but not sibilant like the cheaper SS amps. basically, these amps maintain great clarity and detail while also adding warmth and musicality. the sound is organic and has an immedicy to it, while the holographic soundstage surrounds your head.
post #15 of 38
geez guys when you want to stop this pointless argument? Do we need to go through this again and again every time a Doge 6210 thread appears?

Btw cotdt, where's your OMZ vs Zapfiltered ZL review? Please don't let me wait another day!
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