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post #76 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post
Anybody know what is the patent number? I did a quick patent search at the USPTO and can't find anything.
Most factories don't patent some stuff, so nobody knows exactly what they do. if you try to get a patent, you need to describe in detail what you do.
Some just don't want that to happen.
post #77 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post
Anybody know what is the patent number? I did a quick patent search at the USPTO and can't find anything.
LOL! I found it though
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...ic)+AND+cable)

There's no mention of a dual mono-filament, but looks like Nordost didn't develop it after all. 3M is the holder of the patent. It has the following commercial applications: low-loss UHF/microwave interconnect cable, wireless telephony base station interconnect cable, semiconductor device testing equipment; instrumentation systems, computer networking; data communications, and broadcasting cable.

This is in itself proof that the tech behind the high end Nordost ranges isn't BS, but also means that buyers of Nordost cables with mono-filament tech are being ripped off because there's no way telecommunications companies are being charged the same amount for a meter of cable

EDIT: Actually, I've found the bit about dual mono-filaments:

IBM Technical Disclosure Bulletin Vol. 32, No. 6A, November 1989 at p. 173-174, referred-to in U.S. Pat. No. 5,532,657, discloses a construction of coaxial cable where two individual filaments are spirally wrapped around a single center conductor in counter-directions and at different wrapping rates. The multiple crossings of the filaments are said to provide a stable symmetrical cross-section; and the interstices assure a large fraction of air dielectric in the cable. A similar construction using a twisted pair of filaments spirally wrapped around the center conductor is found in a coaxial cable product made by Temp-flex Inc. of So. Grafton, Mass. This twisted pair spacer is not in continuous contact with the center conductor, and therefore allows more air dielectric to contact the surface of the inner conductor.



I'm struggling to find the patent for the Total Signal Control. I'll probably have to use search terms such as coaxial, cable, shielding, audio, etc...
post #78 of 110
It views a little easier on the google patent search :

Nordost / 3M Patent
post #79 of 110
So it's legit. Money well spent then
post #80 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkpowder View Post
LOL! I found it though
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...ic)+AND+cable)

There's no mention of a dual mono-filament, but looks like Nordost didn't develop it after all. 3M is the holder of the patent. It has the following commercial applications: low-loss UHF/microwave interconnect cable, wireless telephony base station interconnect cable, semiconductor device testing equipment; instrumentation systems, computer networking; data communications, and broadcasting cable.

This is in itself proof that the tech behind the high end Nordost ranges isn't BS, but also means that buyers of Nordost cables with mono-filament tech are being ripped off because there's no way telecommunications companies are being charged the same amount for a meter of cable

EDIT: Actually, I've found the bit about dual mono-filaments:

IBM Technical Disclosure Bulletin Vol. 32, No. 6A, November 1989 at p. 173-174, referred-to in U.S. Pat. No. 5,532,657, discloses a construction of coaxial cable where two individual filaments are spirally wrapped around a single center conductor in counter-directions and at different wrapping rates. The multiple crossings of the filaments are said to provide a stable symmetrical cross-section; and the interstices assure a large fraction of air dielectric in the cable. A similar construction using a twisted pair of filaments spirally wrapped around the center conductor is found in a coaxial cable product made by Temp-flex Inc. of So. Grafton, Mass. This twisted pair spacer is not in continuous contact with the center conductor, and therefore allows more air dielectric to contact the surface of the inner conductor.



I'm struggling to find the patent for the Total Signal Control. I'll probably have to use search terms such as coaxial, cable, shielding, audio, etc...
As i read it:

Nordost managed to maximize the air dielectric and enhanced sound performance. They are huge fan of air insulation.

I use Nordost myself and really like em.
post #81 of 110
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Group buy anyone?
An interesting thought. There are enough people here that a bulk purchase of this cable, perhaps unterminated, might make the price significantly cheaper.

By the way, I've heard the Valhalla and other Nordost cables (including Frey, Heimdall, Blue Heaven, Red Dawn, and Quatro-fil)...I'm generally not very impressed by them. Cardas makes the best cables I've ever heard (and the Golden Reference is the best of the best).
post #82 of 110
Patrick !... ...what happened ... I was looking though my TV guide for the new show Super tweaker but could not find it. Did the network/police dept not go for it??
post #83 of 110
Cables are a funny thing. It's one of those pesky audiophile things that I think add up to about 5% of your overall sound. If we were to figure up how much of your sound comes from equipment, sources, headphones/speakers and amp make up the VAST majority of it. But then those pesky things like cabling and power management do matter a bit.

How much though? When I bought my system I would've been happy if my old cheap cables worked well. But after buying the Revelations and doing a direct comparison, there was no turning back. Sound quality is such a subjective thing, but when you hear increased bass, tremedous increase in speed and resolution and dynamics up the whoo-ha it's hard to deny the effect great cabling can have on a great system.

But I have to seriously wonder how far cabling can take a system. To me, it's like an add on. It's a little extra horse-power on a car that's already hot-rodded. If you add 10,000 horsepower it means nothing if the car/engine can't handle it. The same with cables. I mean, the Odin (and Genesis and etc.) are nearly as much as my Reimyo and more than the SDS-XLR. I find it VERY hard to believe that a cable that costs more than your system can push that system beyond its capabilities. Maybe a great cable allows a great system to shine, but there comes a point where you're just not squeezing any more performance out of it.

While I'd love to audition the Odins and Genesis, I'm almost entirely certain the cost to performance ratio would be so bad that no matter how good they were, it wouldn't be worth it. I DO believe that great cables can make a difference in great systems, but if you're spending THAT much on a cable you better have a system that's worth hundreds of thousands.
post #84 of 110
Valhalla cables are all that matter in my system because it adds a coloration I like. If I use other cables I don't want to listen to music anymore no matter how much the system costs.
post #85 of 110
I just read that review by HiFi+ and I've come away with a couple thoughts.

First and most importantly is I do NOT think that the Odin is a hollow tube conductor. I have much experience with all of Nordost's cables going back several years and I highly doubt this is the case. There is always more hoopla than substance when they introduce something huge like this. I can remember a ton of misinformation bandied about when Valhalla first came out.
Trust me, if it were a hollow conductor they would be making that very very clear.

There are, however a few differences. And exactly what they are depend on which form of cable you are talking about.

With the speaker cable, the Odin uses 12 conductors per leg versus 20 in the Valhalla. The Odin conductors are also larger, perhaps closer to 18g. And, of course, the Odin uses dual filimanent instead of mono.
None of these things are totally new. They have been using dual filament in their Valhalla power cords. And the only other difference (aside from depth of silver plating) from all of their other Norse speaker cables is number of conductors versus size of conductor. (Ie. the same difference found here.)

The only truly new thing with the Odin is the shielding in the interconnect. Instead of two layers of ultra fine silver conductor wrapped around the entire conductor bundle there is a single silver ribbon wrapped around each individual conductor's dual filament spiral. And there is probably also a slight difference with respect to the total number and individual gauge of these conductors as well.

As far as the sound difference goes. I havent heard them myself yet but I will soon. (No, I'm not buying them. Nordost isnt my kind of cable.) I'll report as soon as I do hear them.
But if I were any of you interested, I would be prepared for an improvement much more mild than what the HiFi+ article states.
The difference between the SPM and Valhalla was fairly significant but not totally earth shattering like many claimed early on. I would anticipate that the difference between Odin and Valhalla to be the same or LESS.

$0.02
post #86 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Valhalla cables are all that matter in my system because it adds a coloration I like. If I use other cables I don't want to listen to music anymore no matter how much the system costs.
Some time ago, didn't you comment on how Valhalla "disapeared" and didn't get in the way of the music at all, leaving it just as it should be?
post #87 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalmind View Post
Some time ago, didn't you comment on how Valhalla "disapeared" and didn't get in the way of the music at all, leaving it just as it should be?
Valhalla gave the illusion of transparency. The more I tweaked my system the more I could hear that illusion. Valhalla adds a transparent layer on top of the music and makes everything below it sound clean and open. It gives a bigger and more open soundstage while making everything thinner with emphasized transient detail. It's the best of both worlds.

After I modified my Valhalla power cord (1 conductor per signal) the layer of openness on top of the music was reduced and I could hear more low-level detail and a narrower soundstage. Everything got edgier because the EMI infecting the cable was more apparent. So I wrapped the Valhalla in ERS Paper and the edginess had transformed into more transients and low-level detail which gave a true big and open soundstage.

If the cable is too fat it will make it too smooth and heavy which will give the illusion of a bigger soundstage, but it will sacrifice low-level detail.

Valhalla removes low-level recording noise to make it smoother, but the silver plating adds edginess which boosts the detail back up and makes it sound transparent and open. The end result is better than neutral. With the original Valhalla power cord the bass transients are heavier than neutral while keeping the same speed. It sounds unreal. But I prefer to get extra speed from a thinner Valhalla. It's like pumping the gear full of amphetamine.
post #88 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
After I modified my Valhalla power cord (1 conductor per signal) the layer of openness on top of the music was reduced and I could hear more low-level detail and a narrower soundstage.
Am I to understand that you now have only one conductor for each phase hooked up on your power cord?

Started any fires lately?

Dude. It doesnt matter how little your source may be drawing from the wall. Thats dangerous.
post #89 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champ04 View Post
Am I to understand that you now have only one conductor for each phase hooked up on your power cord?

Started any fires lately?

Dude. It doesnt matter how little your source may be drawing from the wall. Thats dangerous.
Each conductor in Valhalla power cord is 16awg. Stock cables are thinner.
post #90 of 110
Stock power cables for 15a use are standard 12 gauge. (for standard power cord lengths)
The three 16g cables used for each phase of the Valhalla form an aggregate of 11.3g.
Explain to me how 16g is larger than 12g.

The only time the power cord to the electronics will be smaller is if there is a wall wart (transformer) at the plug. In which case, it doesnt matter. Did you rewire a wall wart???
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