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Hydrogenaudio don't like us (Head-Fi) very much? - Page 2

post #16 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:04pm
Trusting your ears is folly, because they will lie to you right to your face, and you won't even realize it.

Measurements are they only way to know for sure.
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post #17 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpalmer View Post
That's 'cause we used to date their women...
All three of them?!?
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post #18 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:09pm
This thread should have ended at #8...

My personal opinion: there are many great people at HA, but there are super-fundamentalist-objectivist A-holes, too, and they can make it more of a drain than is worthwhile. Everyone breaks some TOSes, of course, no biggie, but even when not, it seems everything degenerates, and anything that may slightly involve opinion, whether placebo my be involved or not, is wrong. Except for occasional FB2K questions, I just got the last straw when warned for saying XP 64 wasn't out...when it wasn't available for purchase anywhere. Ugh. They're a minority, but not the easiest to ignore.
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post #19 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates63 View Post
When I had it set up, ASIO was, dare I say, dramatically better. I don't use a PC as a source so I didn't go back to it after I installed Vista.
Not sure what soundcard and/or dac you were using, but when I used to have an X-fi, using ASIO made a dramatic increase in SQ. When I got my Juli@ I was expecting similar results. But on the Juli@, I can not hear any difference between directsound and ASIO. The difference on the X-fi was probably because asio bypassed all the dsps and sound "enhancements" on the x-fi. There were none on the Juli@. But I still use asio, because, well, I can
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post #20 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek View Post
Trusting your ears is folly, because they will lie to you right to your face, and you won't even realize it.

Measurements are they only way to know for sure.
Speaking as someone who worked in the instrumentation industry, I can tell you this: meters lie, meters do not tell you the whole story. Meters and measurements are an aid and design tool, not an end unto themselves.
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post #21 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:39pm
according to the guys at HA, all amps sound the same. perhaps they are right, we should all just listen to our ipods.
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post #22 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshatdot View Post
I was Googling stuff for ASIO support & M-Audio USB Transport, and I found some posts on Hydrogenaudio. I thought to myself "Oh hey, HA knows usually knows this stuff as much as anyone here."

I have not read all their forums or posts, but there seems to be afew over there that don't think to highly of our opinions.
1) i'm still waiting for the good folks at Hydrogen to come up with the protocol and measurement units for measuring soundstage, imaging and speed.

2) i don't trust anyone who insists on measurable data, yet still can't master the basics of spelling and grammar.
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post #23 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:51pm
Hydrogen Audio is a little extreme, but I do understand where they are coming from. How many times do we hear product a blows product b out of the water. There may be differences in amps, CD players and DACs, but they are not as huge as most make them out to be. Burn in is always made out to be more than it is also.

What really bugs them is that there is no DBT here, so you can't prove that one product is better than another and placebo is never taken out of the equation.
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post #24 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:53pm
Quote:
i don't trust anyone who insists on measurable data, yet still can't master the basics of spelling and grammar.
You mean like capitalizing I?
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post #25 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by meat01 View Post
You mean like capitalizing I?
yes, well... touche.
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post #26 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:55pm
it is not that 'they' don't like us - just not see eye to eye on a few principles. both camps are in pursuit of the best or what each considers is best audio fidelity and come to the argument from different angles.

i think that they take it more as a science whereas we mostly, take it as a hobby and treat listening as a hobby. we spend uber amounts of money like those who grease up new cars or horses etc; we scoff at those who don't get it etc.

ive been hydrogenaudio member for much longer than headfi. found out about yous guys from some recommendations by members in hydrogenaudio who credit this site with as the most comprehensive headphone database in the world (doubt it not).

thanks to them, i am a proud member of headfi.org and also a an owner of headphones i purchased through informed (and uninformed) discussions and serious browsing through akihabara!
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post #27 of 86
5/15/07 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roam View Post
Speaking as someone who worked in the instrumentation industry, I can tell you this: meters lie, meters do not tell you the whole story. Meters and measurements are an aid and design tool, not an end unto themselves.
i like this.
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post #28 of 86
5/15/07 at 10:04pm
Bad-mouthing is a trait of inferiors.

We are different. Head-Fiers are people with common senses and we enjoy our music with our heart. We don't wear a sound meter on our head and read response frequecy graphs when we enjoy music...
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post #29 of 86
5/15/07 at 10:06pm
It's thread like this that discredit Head-Fi. Most of you who have posted in this thread are bashing Hydrogen Audio when you clearly do not have an understanding of what that forum is about or what its terms of service actually require.

For example, apnk made this sarcastic comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by apnk View Post
I listen with ears not meters.
But here is what Hydrogen Audio's TOS #8 actually requires:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HA terms of service, emphasis added
8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must -- to the best of their ability -- provide objective support for their claims. Acceptable means of support are double blind listening tests (ABX or ABC/HR) demonstrating that the member can discern a difference perceptually, together with a test sample to allow others to reproduce their findings. Graphs, non-blind listening tests, waveform difference comparisons, and so on, are not acceptable means of providing support.
HA is all about listening. Hydrogen Audio, unlike Head-Fi, just requires that before you make subjective comparisons, you demonstrate through a controlled listening test that you can actually hear a difference.

It's fine if you disagree with the Hydrogen Audio philosophy; but please, if you want to comment on it, at least make an attempt to understand it first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x331m View Post
Bad-mouthing is a trait of inferiors.

We are different. Head-Fiers are people with common senses and we enjoy our music with our heart. We don't wear a sound meter on our head and read response frequecy graphs when we enjoy music...
Pot ... kettle ...
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post #30 of 86
5/15/07 at 10:15pm
that's the problem with hydrogen audio. they advocate blind testing (which I do as well), but they do not understand how to interpret blind tests. how the heck is blind testing supposed to support subjective listening, like one system being "warmer" or "clearer" than another? it will tell you that the two systems are different, but nothing beyond that. restricting subjective statements without blind test results is extremely limiting to a good audio discussion.
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