New iMod for the iPod 5G: A Red Wine Audio/ALO Collaboration - Page 13

Simply LOL

Wow...10 pages on speculation and retaliation.

They say a picture is work a thousand words...but, in this case, a 5th generation Ipod Imod is worth two thousand words

The 4G iMod may very well sound better than the 5G iMod Also, just how good is the DAC in the 5G iPod? No one except Vinnie and Ken knows for sure. That said, the 5G does have better ergonomics, interface and screen. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a 5G iMod if I were in the market for this kind of product: a portable, digital, hi-fidelity source.

Personally, I'm going to hang on to my wallet until Steve of Empirical Audio manages to extract the I2S interface (apparently superior to S/PDIF even though it is not as popular) from the iPod DAC and hopefully allow the use of an external DAC for the iPod. While this product may cost significantly more expensive (judging from EA's pricing for the USB to I2S interface), it will be aimed at a slightly different target niche with a different function. The end result would be spectacular if Steve manages to maintain normal function of the iPod like Vinnie has managed do with his iMod.

Anyway, that's a story for another time.

Funny how everybody ignored this post...so, is this really the case? Without any "investigation", it would seem this is true...

I'm serious! I do think it's great news, I have wanted to get my 80 GB iPod modded for quite a while. And I missed the thread because I don't read the portable audio forum much. So much head-fi, so little time

I am suspcious myself. Vinnie has long held--on HeadFi, Audiocircle, and his website--that the reason he didn't offer a 5G iMod is because he felt the DAC in the 4G was superior to the one in the 5G. How has that changed if the DAC hasn't changed? It could be that the 5G DAC sounds better than the 4G, since it's almost been unanimous sentiment among listeners of the two that the sound quality of the 5G is better than the 4G. I hate to speculate Vinnie's sincerity because he's been outstanding in his customer service, but I personally thought the reason that was no 5G iMod was the more difficult labor (smaller size of the 5G vis-a-vis the 4G).

I didn't think his post was worth dignifying with a response. There is no need to call it "a rip off" or "ridiculous". That's insulting to Vinnie who is a stand-up guy. Vinnie has said the work to do this is very delicate, difficult, and time consuming. I for one can tell you, with certainty, that you won't catch ME mucking around inside my ipod. No way.

I have fully enjoyed my 4G iMod iPods, and Vinnie is awesome to deal with, so no, I don't think it's a rip-off at all.

I'm somewhat torn on this issue as well. I think "ridiculous" is a bit strong, but it doesn't quite add up.

With the 4th gen iMod, you were indeed buying the parts and the service for $200. It was steep, but they were good parts and a very exacting service. Vinnie even disconnected the leads to the dock connector so it wouldn't "interfere with sound quality".

With the 5g, the caps are packaged in Ken's cable, so you're no longer buying the parts. Also, Vinnie doesn't remove the headphone out (for sound quality), he just sends leads from the DAC to the line-out.

Vinnie is a great contributor to this forum, as is Ken, so I won't cry foul. I do, however, wonder: are we paying 5/6 the cost of a new iPod just to have Vinnie attach the DAC directly to the lineout? Maybe that's worth it to some of you, as it is no doubt delicate work, but I'm much more comfortable with paying $50 less for more work and more parts.

vinnie has admitted that he just doesn't do the 5g mod due to space constraints, and that the dac sounding worse isn't his real reasoning. the fact that he has to put the caps in the dock shows that he wasn't lying about that.

vinnie is definitely a stand up guy, but we are talking about a product. i don't know his favorite color, i don't come over to his house for football; i buy things from him. if jesus came back and sold something i didn't care for i still wouldn't buy it. also, the fact that most people aren't willing to go inside the ipod pretty much allows vinnie to charge what he does. NO I DO NOT THINK VINNIE IS A SCAM ARTIST WHO SELLS SNAKE OIL. i am just saying that the fact that you and others (including me) don't have the skills to turn the ipod into a clean line out doesn't mean that it is a miracle of science.

yeah. the caps are removed and put into a cable. you're paying more for less parts, and then you have to buy a pretty expensive cable to boot.

no offense meant to vinnie at all in this post. i will wait until more is revealed to make any further comments. at the moment, though, i am not utterly convinced, and if this mod is available for the nano, there's no way i will get it if i need to spend $125 on a cable. i really do hope ken or another diyer steps up to make a cheaper cable with the capacitors, because then i may consider it. people have been asking for 5g imods for a while though, so at least he listens to his customers.

About my previous post, I will say that maybe I chose overly harsh language, but my point still reigns true. I am not saying that Vinnie is a bad guy or anything, I am simply questioning the value of the mod itself. Personally, I was expecting Vinnie to charge around 100 since the cable had to be purchased separately (which is half or more of the mod). Not to mention, as the previous poster has stated, that Vinnie does nothing else except to run wires from the DAC directly to the line-out on the ipod.

@Skylab, no offense mate, but opening an ipod is really simple and takes hardly any time as long as your are careful (and not even that careful, I mean just common sense careful here). Therefore, modding a 5/5.5 gen ipod is very simple. The 4th gen imod was different because Vinnie was making many more changes to the unit (including removing an op-amp and disabling the head-phone out, etc.)


Of course what Vinnie is relying on here are people like you who have the money to burn (which is no problem by me) so they dont really argue much. But for someone in my question (and I have a right to) I question the value of my money spent in such an endeavor.


Once again I would like to stress the importance that I only have arguments against the pricing of the 5th gen imods, not the 4th gens as they are worth it in my opinion for the work/mods being done.

Everyone has the right to question value. Value is an individual thing. But I do think your words were ill chosen. I wish everyone on headfi would be a little less quick to cast aspersions.

As for the iPod being easy to open, OK, maybe, but is it really "easy" for the average person to know exactly where to take the output off the dac chip? I think it's harder than it may seem, that's all.

Anyway, people have the choice between the two gen's, if the bulkier look of the 4th gen and the lower price is more appealing than the 5th gen, that's it but there's a lot of people who want a newer, more reliable products and they are willing to pay for it.

I'd like to add one thing. If your amp already has signal coupling caps, you shouldn't need to add one again from the source.

All,

A while back I modded the 5G, but did not do it the same way that I am now doing it. I don't believe I was performing it properly... I was trying my best to fit the upgraded caps into the unit, and deactivate the headphone jack to make it the modded line-out (just like I do for the 4G iMod). I suspect that I was not performing this mod correctly because I was NOT getting the results that I am now getting. Back thenI ran into some problems, had to throw away a few 5Gs (well, I saved some parts) and decided to not offer the mods for the 5G... it was just way too much of a PITA!

Not too long ago I had an idea... I spoke with Ken of ALO and asked him if it was possible to install the caps into his dock cable. He told me that he'd give it a try, and then send me the resulting cable to me right before the
HE2007 show. There was no burn-in on those caps and already this
modded 5.5G was able to keep up with the modded 4G (that had hundreds of hours of burn-in)... and let me tell you, it is getting even better as I use it! The bass is even more defined and has more presence. The rest of the sound is very, very similar to that of the 4G iMod. Does the 5G iMod blow away the 4G iMod... NO. Do I prefer the sound of the modded 5G with ALO iMod cable... YES, and like I mentioned, it isn't even burned in yet!

I really do wish I teamed up with ALO on this ealier because he makes a really great sounding cable and does really good work.

Regarding pricing.... one needs to understand that it is much harder working inside of that 5G/5.5G iPod. Even without installing the upgraded caps into the unit, it is taking me a lot more time to do the mod because I need to take the entire unit apart to access the area of the board where I perform the mods. And they are much more difficult to do, and even more risky. Some of the parts that I am removing are extremely tiny and take extreme precison (microscope, delicate desoldering equipment, etc). Remember, this is why I didn't even want to get involved with the 5G/5.5G iMod in the first place.... it is a ROYAL pain in the neck to work in there (literally... I get cramped neck muscles! ), and I need to replace motherboards when a mistake is made. Everything is so delicate in there and reseaching how to do the mod and actually performing the mod that I am performing is not as easy as some might think.

Regarding what Ken is doing at ALO, I've seen pictures of the internal of that iMod Dock cable with those caps installed... it is NOT easy to build! Those tiny dock connector pins that he solderes the caps directly to are very tedious to work with. Ken also uses really good wire and offers great customer service. He needs to make a living as well. We both do this full-time and this is our only source of income.

I also support my customers for as long as they own their iMod. When you need a battery replacement, a new hard drive, a new LCD, whatever... you can just send me the part (I can even help you them online) and I'll do the repair at no charge to you. This is not cheap for me, but if my customers are going to put this kind of investment into their iPods to get the best sound quality possible, it is very important that you are getting the very best cusotmer support possible. As long as you are a RWA customer, you will be well-supported.

I appreciate those who understand the type of work this is and how time consuming and difficult is, and realize that it comes with a cost. To those who think the price "doesn't add up," I am sorry but until you try to do what I am doing and try to offer the customer service that I offer, you probably don't understand where I am coming from. I am not insulted and everyone is allowed to express their own opinion.

Best regards,

Vinnie

Well handled, Vinnie. I've opened my iPod before, and it's a jungle in there. To me, right now, the difference isn't worth the price. But that's me. The whole beauty of this is that, to those who find value in this service, Red wine and ALO make it very worth while.

I'm glad you aren't insulted -- none of my comments (even those about not adding up) weren't intended as insults. They were honest speculations about a very new product.

On a side note, Vinnie, I love my Sig 30. Drives my Druids like a charm.