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My first vinyl rig(s): Pioneer PL-518 & ADC 1600 - Page 3

post #31 of 44
Thread Starter 
I didn't want to start a completely new thread for this question...hopefully it'll get answered here.

I just yesterday got the ADC LMB-1 magnesium headshell for the pioneer. I mounted the ADC QLM MK3 cartridge to the headshell and plugged into the tonearm.

I zero leveled the turntable (to the best of my ability in its currently compromised seating location) and began to set vtf. I've read that the QLM works at 2-4 g and sounds best ~ 3.2 grams. I can't get the tracking force up that high. On my shure SFG-2 stylus force gauge I see a max of ~ 2.6 grams. Is there anything I can do to adjust that heavier? Or is the magnesium headshell just too light?

Other than the problem with the low vtf I was able to align the cartridge properly (to the best of my knowledge). I proceded to plug it into the integrated phono stage of my yamaha two channel amp and adjusted the speed. The speed held steady and I started a record playing.

1. Very nice sound out of only one channel. I checked the wiring at the cartridge and at each connector plugged into the amp. Everything seems fine but I'm going to take apart the bottom of the pioneer to check the connections there. Anything else I should check as an obvious fix?

2. With no volume from the amp there is a fair amount of sound coming from the stylus itself. I've read that this is normal but just want to verify it isn't a symptom of something I'm not familiar with.

I've got some free time opening up soon and am beginning to look at plans for an all tube pre-amp...building that should be fun
post #32 of 44
Tracking: The Shure goes upto 3gms which should be heavy enough. It depends on which indentation you rest the stylus on. One is for 0-1.5 and the other from 1.5-3gms.

Hum: Have you attached the Earth wire to the amp?

Signal: Jiggle the lead out wires going to the amp. Sometimes the connections are loose from age.

Reverse the channels to make sure the amp isn't at fault.

Work backwards towards the cart checking connections.

Make sure the headshell is tightened properly

Check you have the four little wires correctly connected into the headshell and cartridge pins

Red = Right
White = Left
Green = Right Ground
Blue = left Ground

Reverse the left / right polarity so make sure the cart itself isn't faulty
post #33 of 44
Thread Starter 
Thanks meme! I think I need to clarify a few things:

1. I realize the shure gauge will read up to 3 grams, what I'm saying is that with the weight on the tonearm adjusted to be butted up against the pivot I can only get around 2.6 grams of measured vertical tracking force. I understand that this is within the QLMs operating range but would like to get closer to 3-3.2 grams. Is there anything I can do to increase the tracking force? Or should I just grab a heavier head shell?

2. I'm not getting any hum as I have the ground spade connected to my amp. What I've noticed is that with the volume on the amp turned all the way down I hear music from the stylus. I understand this is natural but it is actually quite loud. Is this anything to be concerned about?

TIA
post #34 of 44
A-ha, ok now I get it. The ADC headshell is designed to allow you to use higher compliance carts like the ShureM97/AT440ML by reducing the arm mass on the Pioneer tonearm. These type of carts track at between 1-2gms normaly.
The ADC QLM cart I recommended on the basis of the Pioneer arm with the Pioneer headshell which is twice the mass of the ADC. So you can experiment basically with the two different headshells and see which you prefer. I advised you to get the ADC headshell so that you wouldn't be limited to just using low compliance carts.

The noise you are describing coming from the mechanical tracing of the grooves on the record is totally normal as has been mentioned in another thread. That's how the system works although some set ups are louder than others depending on many things.
post #35 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by memepool View Post
A-ha, ok now I get it. The ADC headshell is designed to allow you to use higher compliance carts like the ShureM97/AT440ML by reducing the arm mass on the Pioneer tonearm. These type of carts track at between 1-2gms normaly.
The ADC QLM cart I recommended on the basis of the Pioneer arm with the Pioneer headshell which is twice the mass of the ADC. So you can experiment basically with the two different headshells and see which you prefer. I advised you to get the ADC headshell so that you wouldn't be limited to just using low compliance carts.

The noise you are describing coming from the mechanical tracing of the grooves on the record is totally normal as has been mentioned in another thread. That's how the system works although some set ups are louder than others depending on many things.

Ah Ha! That makes perfect sense. So seeing as the headshell that was originally on the pioneer is one of the proprietary ADC Integras I may just order a heavier headshell for the pioneer to play around with.

Do you have any opinions on possibly replacing the tonearm on the ADC? I'm thinking something a little heavier to give me a few more choices.

Now I've just got to get around to fixing this lack of sound out of the one channel....hopefully I'll have time tonight.
post #36 of 44
Sorry I didn't realise that you didn't have the original Pioneer headshell as well. There is no shortage of higher mass headshells around anyway as they are more in demand for Moving coil cartridges especially for hi-end japanese arms like the Fidelity Research. It's finding the lower mass ones like the ADC LMB-1 you have which is more difficult.

Another option in the meantime so you can assess the differences is to simply load the ADC headshell. A dime is the most popular method amongst DJ's but a piece of blutak is probably better. There are little weights that you get in DJ shops for this purpose too.

Just attach a small lump of bluetak to the top of the headshell and set the weight to 3gms and then try it at 2.5. With a low compliance cart the suspension is less springy but you should hear it sounding spry but a bit bass light with too little downforce and slightly sluggish with too much.

As for the ADC arm, you certainly don't want to get rid of that, it's the best thing on the deck. There is nothing wrong with low mass arms it's just a different design approach. You can read about different arm designs here http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/armdesign_e.html

The best cart to get for this is the Shure V15 series III which can be found on ebay. Get one without a stylus as this is cheaper and then fit a http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/stylus/sas.php JICO SAS stylus.
This would be one of the best possible high compliance carts but if you want a cheaper solution JICO also make SAS for the M91 / M95 which you can pick up for nect to nothing on ebay.
post #37 of 44
Thread Starter 
Just ordered the V15 mkIII cartridge for the ADC. I also ordered a heavier headshell for the pioneer and a brush from lpgear.

So far I've spent:

Pioneer PL-518: $45
ADC 1600: $30

Headshell for ADC: $15
ADC LMB-1 Headshell for Pioneer: $35
Generic Headshell for Pioneer: $15

ADC QLM 32 mkIII: $50
Shure V15 mkIII: $100

Misc (protractor, force gauge, mounting screws): $45

Total: $340....not too shabby considering I wasn't even sure I wanted to get very deep into this.

I'm now trying to figure out the wiring on the pioneer. I need to start at the cartridge and work backwards to dissect the problem.

I'm also keeping my eye out to try a belt driven table. There's a TD-160 being sold locally that needs a belt, the gentleman is willing to let it go for $250...so tempting.
post #38 of 44
Did you order the v15iii stylus or cart because the
way I read your last post was that you may have
ordered the stylus meant for the v15iii to try to
fit it to your adc cart.
post #39 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JadeEast View Post
Did you order the v15iii stylus or cart because the
way I read your last post was that you may have
ordered the stylus meant for the v15iii to try to
fit it to your adc cart.
Nope...ordered the V15MKIII cart. I'm going to pick up the stylus for it when my wallet recovers a touch (had an expensive weekend )
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrums View Post
I'm now trying to figure out the wiring on the pioneer. I need to start at the cartridge and work backwards to dissect the problem.
.
Check the lead-out wires and look inside the deck for dry solder joints. Also
a test record like the Hi-Fi News and Record Review HFNRR one with tones and noise bursts could be of help here. You can hook -up the turntable to your computer and run a software oscilloscope / multimeter like http://www.zelscope.com/

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrums View Post
I'm also keeping my eye out to try a belt driven table. There's a TD-160 being sold locally that needs a belt, the gentleman is willing to let it go for $250...so tempting.
TD160's are very nice indeed mainly because they can be upgraded endlessly. In stock form though it won't be any better than your Beogram (which is a belt driven deck BTW). See which one it is as there are lots of variations.
post #41 of 44
http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/M1200.HTM

Saw this on KAB today. They sell a 3 gram spacer weight for 1.50 which you could use on you ADC headshell on the Pioneer.
post #42 of 44
Thread Starter 
As I'm starting to get more and more comfortable with using my pioneer turntable I have a question about more detailed setup: how does one compensate for azimuth correction on a tonearm like the pioneers? Or does one not? I just picked up some nice 180 gram presses that I don't want to ruin so I'd like to know my cart/stylus is adjusted properly...TIA

Also, I'm noticing a fair amount of hiss with the pioneer...though this is just using the integrated phono pre-amp in my yamaha two channel. Besides adjusting the vertical tracking force and aligning using a protractor, is there anything else I can do to minimize some of the noise?
post #43 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrums View Post
As I'm starting to get more and more comfortable with using my pioneer turntable I have a question about more detailed setup: how does one compensate for azimuth correction on a tonearm like the pioneers? Or does one not? I just picked up some nice 180 gram presses that I don't want to ruin so I'd like to know my cart/stylus is adjusted properly...TIA

Also, I'm noticing a fair amount of hiss with the pioneer...though this is just using the integrated phono pre-amp in my yamaha two channel. Besides adjusting the vertical tracking force and aligning using a protractor, is there anything else I can do to minimize some of the noise?
http://www.vinylengine.com/library_m...d_model=PL-518

Here is the manual.

Azimuth as in tilt of the headshell should be just a question of unscrewing the headshell slightly and moving the headshell with your fingers, however this is often factory preset.

The most important thing to protect your vinyl is making sure the cart is aligned properly. Turntable basics has a nice alignment protractor printed on a mirror which makes this easy but it is 20USD. You can download one for free on the net and print it yourself on some stiff card. Or simply laminating some paper from a laser print is a good idea.


The hiss you are hearing could well be the phonostage if it is present when the record is not playing. Turn up the volume on the amp to check this. A better phonostage like the Cambridge Audio or NAD will be a good investment at some point.
post #44 of 44
Thread Starter 
I tweaked the headshell on the pioneer just a touch and it seems to be much closer to verticle.

I'm using the protractor from lpgear that came with there 'zero level' bubble and it seems to get pretty close. I need to pick up a set of those spacer weights for sure....the dime taped on the back of the pioneer is pretty ghetto but it works for now.
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