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Why does wav sound better than FLAC?

post #1 of 43
4/29/07 at 12:41am
Thread Starter 
In my system, converting a flac file to wav and playing the wav file sounds better that playing the flac file directly (foobar asio external dac).

How can this be, when flac is supposed to be lossless?

The effect is NOT subtle (on the hifi scale, my system is pretty high-end, speakers not headphones) but not so great as to indicate something seriously wrong with my flac-playing.

(Thought about this when I read someone in another post saying that playing the cd in the computer sounded better for him than playing a ripped flac.)

It would be interesting to know if you guys and girls get the same results on your systems
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post #2 of 43
4/29/07 at 12:55am
do an abx test. i cannot hear the difference at all. always fail abx tests.
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post #3 of 43
4/29/07 at 1:01am
on my computer rig, i can't tell the difference between high quality VBR and FLAC or the CD itself. but my stand alone rig (z110 myryad) sounds better than both and i'm not quite sure why.
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post #4 of 43
4/29/07 at 1:04am
Your FLAC decoder is probably borked. But until you do a blind test, nothing can be said for certain.
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post #5 of 43
4/29/07 at 1:19am
Check your FLAC encoder as well. Sometimes it'll jumble the volume up which you might perceive as a higher level of detail/dynamics with WAV that is merely a difference in dB's. Default settings within the FLAC encoder cut the encoded file down 2 dB's I believe, but don't quote me.
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post #6 of 43
4/29/07 at 5:36am
It has to be placebo since you're claiming that FLAC *decoded* to wave is better (as opposed to wav before encoding is better). When playing a FLAC file, it must be decoded anyway before it reaches the DAC.
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post #7 of 43
4/29/07 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahriman4891 View Post
Your FLAC decoder is probably borked.
This was my thought as well, and probably the only thing that makes sense with this problem.
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post #8 of 43
4/29/07 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfbruck View Post
In my system, converting a flac file to wav and playing the wav file sounds better that playing the flac file directly (foobar asio external dac).

How can this be, when flac is supposed to be lossless?

Could the codec used to replay the flac and the one used to do the conversion be different versions ... ? i.e. you have more than one flac decoding codec on your system?
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post #9 of 43
4/29/07 at 8:25am
Do you have replaygain enabled in the FLAC files. My files sound terrible if replaygain is used.
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post #10 of 43
4/29/07 at 8:46am
Thread Starter 
What is an abx test?

Will do a blind test.

To clarify: it is not that the wave sounds better before it is encoded, but SAME flac file sounds better if you first decode it to wave and then play the wave file.

Using the flac decoder in foobar and the flac converter in foobar to convert to wave.
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post #11 of 43
4/29/07 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestSpecimen View Post
Do you have replaygain enabled in the FLAC files.
This is the most likely explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfbruck View Post
What is an abx test?
It's a way of doing a double-blind comparison of two files. In Foobar v.0.9.x, it is easy to do. Just select the two files you want to compare, right click, and go to Utils --> ABX two tracks.
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post #12 of 43
4/29/07 at 10:26am
You'll find threads on some other forums (AudioCircle, AudioAsylum, etc.) in which people debate in great earnest whether FLAC or WAV sounds better. It's a strong testament to the self-deception that can happen in this hobby. Assuming nothing has gone wrong in the playback process, they sound absolutely the same. Absolutely.

I agree with the suggestion that your FLAC encoder may be adding ReplayGain tags and your music player is configured to apply them. That results in the volume of your music changing.
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post #13 of 43
4/29/07 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by khbaur330162 View Post
Check your FLAC encoder as well. Sometimes it'll jumble the volume up which you might perceive as a higher level of detail/dynamics with WAV that is merely a difference in dB's. Default settings within the FLAC encoder cut the encoded file down 2 dB's I believe, but don't quote me.
Yes, I have seen reference to this before. So this needs to be checked.
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post #14 of 43
4/29/07 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by khbaur330162 View Post
Check your FLAC encoder as well. Sometimes it'll jumble the volume up which you might perceive as a higher level of detail/dynamics with WAV that is merely a difference in dB's. Default settings within the FLAC encoder cut the encoded file down 2 dB's I believe, but don't quote me.
he is right
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post #15 of 43
4/29/07 at 6:00pm
Does anyone have a reference to this alleged 2dB reduction? I just encoded and then decoded a WAV through Flac 1.1.3 defaults, and the files are bit-for-bit identical.
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