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post #16 of 36
4/4/07 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Febs View Post
So, a 24/96 DAC should be able to perfectly reproduce frequencies of up to 48kHz, and a 24/192 DAC should be able to reproduce frequencies of up to 96kHz. Given that the upper limit of human hearing is in the low 20 kHz range, I am highly skeptical of claims that there is an audible difference between the two.

JAES experiments back in the early 80s provided evidence to suggest that even some highly trained audio engineers could not reliably detect the existence of 16K or 18K brickwall filters even when the musical program contained frequencies well above 20K and the speakers used could respond to frequencies up to 40K !. They all managed to detect the 14K filter...
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post #17 of 36
4/6/07 at 3:18pm
Check this out:
http://www.dbtechno.com/documents/Sampling_Theory.pdf

It basically says that upsampling to 192 is bad because it gives more work for the DAC to do and hence, more room for error.

I've heard of a CD players that upsamples to 768khz.
That's just plain madness. I guarantee not one life form on this planet can hear the difference.
768khz!!! That's only 100 000 hz away from an AM transmission broadcast frequency.
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post #18 of 36
4/6/07 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Febs View Post
As I understand it, the Nyquist Theorem says that exact reconstruction of a signal from its samples is possible if the signal is bandlimited and the sampling frequency is greater than twice the signal bandwidth.

The 44.1kHz sampling frequency was selected because of compatibility with existing video equipment. The Nyquist Theorem doesn't directly say anything with respect to whether this sampling frequency is or is not appropriate for audio playback. It just says that the theoretical maximum frequency that can reproduced with that sampling rate is 22.05kHz.

So, a 24/96 DAC should be able to perfectly reproduce frequencies of up to 48kHz, and a 24/192 DAC should be able to reproduce frequencies of up to 96kHz. Given that the upper limit of human hearing is in the low 20 kHz range, I am highly skeptical of claims that there is an audible difference between the two.
What if it didn't just extend the frequency range higher but also made the data for the frequency within human hearing denser?
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post #19 of 36
4/7/07 at 4:50am
"Denser" in the audible range certainly won't do anything, nyquist proves that.
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post #20 of 36
4/8/07 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrooLism View Post
Check this out:
http://www.dbtechno.com/documents/Sampling_Theory.pdf

It basically says that upsampling to 192 is bad because it gives more work for the DAC to do and hence, more room for error.

I've heard of a CD players that upsamples to 768khz.

That's just plain madness. I guarantee not one life form on this planet can hear the difference.
768khz!!! That's only 100 000 hz away from an AM transmission broadcast frequency.
Which players do this?

The highest I'd seen recently was the Cambridge 840c at 384khz.
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post #21 of 36
4/8/07 at 1:39pm
I know that the revered Lavry has distain for 192Hz and insists that 96Hz is better.
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post #22 of 36
4/8/07 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Thorsen View Post
Which players do this?

The highest I'd seen recently was the Cambridge 840c at 384khz.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superio...odsonda218.htm

http://miarroba.com/foros/ver.php?fo...&temaid=949203

http://www.caryaudio.com/pdfs/reviews/CD306_tas.pdf

http://www.anagramtech.com/feed
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post #23 of 36
4/8/07 at 4:03pm
^^ Thanks!
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post #24 of 36
4/8/07 at 7:10pm
Sharp SM-SX300 1-bit Amplifier
11.2 MHz sampling
http://www.audiocubes2.com/brand/Sha...Amplifier.html

I don't know if the it's only the digital amp that samples 11.2MHz or if the DAC also goes that high, or if there's any difference in concept between the dac and the amp in here.
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post #25 of 36
4/10/07 at 10:51am
Yeah, humans definitely can't hear outside the 20-20KHz range but we can definitely feel sounds outside this range. You know - something like "This sounds right" or "This sounds somehow bad".
It is difficult to explain "How Exactly" is it good or bad though.
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post #26 of 36
4/16/07 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Thorsen View Post
Which players do this?

The highest I'd seen recently was the Cambridge 840c at 384khz.
The Cary CDP-1 and 303/300 do it. Also the Esoteric players.
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post #27 of 36
4/16/07 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by florinbaiduc View Post
Yeah, humans definitely can't hear outside the 20-20KHz range but we can definitely feel sounds outside this range. You know - something like "This sounds right" or "This sounds somehow bad".
It is difficult to explain "How Exactly" is it good or bad though.
Sure, if your speakers/phones can do it (most can't, my HD650 can, but who cares, I listen to 44.1/16)
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post #28 of 36
4/16/07 at 11:37pm
Wait, aren't we talking about sampling rate (i.e. the kHz in this discussion) not frequency range?

Frequency does not equate to sampling rate to my knowledge.
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post #29 of 36
4/17/07 at 7:49am
doesnt every modern dvd player output redbook at 96khz on it's s/pdif output? every player i have hooked to a dac lights up the 96khz locked light when playing redbook cd's.

music_man
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post #30 of 36
4/17/07 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mofonyx View Post
Wait, aren't we talking about sampling rate (i.e. the kHz in this discussion) not frequency range?

Frequency does not equate to sampling rate to my knowledge.
Sampling rate directly dictates the maximum frequency available for PCM i.e most standard CD systems - 44.1khz sampling rate dictates that the highest frequency that can be returned is 22.05khz i.e 1/2 the sampling rate - on some(most) systems the cutoff is pragmatically set a little lower i.e 20khz.

Bit-depth i.e 16 or 24 dictates resolution i.e the maximum no of discrete signal levels that can be rendered (for PCM systems) .

So a 16/44.1 system will give you roughly 20 - 20k with each sample having a range of 0000000000000000 to 1111111111111111 i.e 0 - 63535.
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