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post #16 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitesymphony View Post
After re-thinking about your question for a minute, I have a question for you:

What does the card's sound quality matter if you're only using its digital output?
Good question. I'm sure either, that's why wanted to know

Quote:
Also, if you're going to an external DSP, couldn't it perform some of the same functions as EAX?
Well, no actually. The Alpine PXA-H701 doesn't have some of the virtual soundfield DSP effects I enjoy listening to like "Concert Hall". In fact, I don't even care about the majority of DSP effects. The only one I care about really is "Concert Hall". Does the EMU-1212M have a Concert Hall DSP effect? If so, can you tweak around with it? Like adjust the delay, reverb, echo, etc? And if I use the Toslink Optical out on it, will concert hall be applied?
post #17 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu View Post
Good question. I'm sure either, that's why wanted to know
Well, no actually. The Alpine PXA-H701 doesn't have some of the virtual soundfield DSP effects I enjoy listening to like "Concert Hall". In fact, I don't even care about the majority of DSP effects. The only one I care about really is "Concert Hall". Does the EMU-1212M have a Concert Hall DSP effect? If so, can you tweak around with it? Like adjust the delay, reverb, echo, etc? And if I use the Toslink Optical out on it, will concert hall be applied?
In that case, analog output won't matter... Which begs the question, what's the purpose of the Alpine unit?

The E-MU series has plenty of fairly decent built-in DSP all accessible via a DAW-style interface called PatchMix DSP (which is what sits in the system tray). I'm almost 100% sure that you could find a way to route the DSP through the digital output. It's meant to be studio gear, so the routing options are almost unlimited.

It's sort of a shame to only use the 1212M for digital output, though I've heard it has low jitter and acts well as a transport. Another option you might consider is finding a VST wrapper for Winamp (example: CTAF MultiFXVST) and downloading one or more of the dozens of free (and near-professional quality) effects plug-ins from http://www.kvraudio.com. This is a cheap or free solution that will work with any sound card.

So, Winamp + VST -> AV-710 -> (TOSlink output) -> Alpine DSP unit, etc. In this case, you're not really interested in bit-perfect audio, so the stock AV-710 drivers might suit your needs.
post #18 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitesymphony View Post
...
Sorry about Vista... I know I won't upgrade from XP for a loooong time. Right now, there are virtually no positives (unless you consider the user and hardware interfaces to be an improvement) and plenty of negatives.
Me neither, but you know there's still DX10 to look forward to, it requires Vista. Hopefully by the time the DX10 games are out, Vista will be better (less holes) and cheaper.
post #19 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanamin View Post
Me neither, but you know there's still DX10 to look forward to, it requires Vista. Hopefully by the time the DX10 games are out, Vista will be better (less holes) and cheaper.
True, and that's when I'll upgrade... It's sort of like the console wars--I'm not buying a system until an absolutely killer app comes out. Windows XP was the same way; plenty of old applications were broken. Eventually, workarounds were found for almost everything, and the driver support became better over time. I remember when the big deal was that Windows XP ran applications considerably slower than Windows 95/98/98SE/ME on the same machine, since the OS had more system requirements. Perhaps most new computers still aren't good enough to truly run Vista the way it's meant to be run.

And on that note, I hope VIA releases stable drivers that work with the AV-710.
post #20 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitesymphony View Post
In that case, analog output won't matter... Which begs the question, what's the purpose of the Alpine unit?

The E-MU series has plenty of fairly decent built-in DSP all accessible via a DAW-style interface called PatchMix DSP (which is what sits in the system tray). I'm almost 100% sure that you could find a way to route the DSP through the digital output. It's meant to be studio gear, so the routing options are almost unlimited.

It's sort of a shame to only use the 1212M for digital output, though I've heard it has low jitter and acts well as a transport. Another option you might consider is finding a VST wrapper for Winamp (example: CTAF MultiFXVST) and downloading one or more of the dozens of free (and near-professional quality) effects plug-ins from http://www.kvraudio.com. This is a cheap or free solution that will work with any sound card.

So, Winamp + VST -> AV-710 -> (TOSlink output) -> Alpine DSP unit, etc. In this case, you're not really interested in bit-perfect audio, so the stock AV-710 drivers might suit your needs.

infinitesymphony...you got me thinking... I may have a better solution for my car:

Since the E-MU1212 sounds so good thought its analog output. Perhaps I can it and connect it to a *Dension Gateway 500* This device is an interface that acts as an AUX input for Mercedes Benz cars, replacing the fiber optic CD changer interface! It's pretty darn cool. Since it has RCA AUX in jacks, I could connect a 1212m from my CarPC and given the great sound quality(supposedly..I haven't heard it yet) it should sound pretty exception don't you think?

Plus, what if I get the USB version? Will it have rca outs and a headphone out as well?

How does it sound from the headphone out with headphones by the way?
post #21 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu View Post
Since [the Dension Gateway 500] has RCA AUX in jacks, I could connect a 1212m from my CarPC and given the great sound quality(supposedly..I haven't heard it yet) it should sound pretty exception don't you think?
Assuming that the Dension Gateway 500 won't mess around with the analog signal in some weird way, it should sound great. This option is more flexible because it allows pretty much any audio device with analog outputs to connect to the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu
Plus, what if I get the USB version? Will it have rca outs and a headphone out as well?
None of the E-MU USB devices have direct RCA outputs, because they're designed with balanced audio in mind (but they can run unbalanced, too). They all have XLR/TRS outputs, so you'll need either a TRS to RCA adapter like this (~$3 for two), or custom TRS to RCA cables (~$25 each from Blue Jeans Cable) if you want less connections.

A few side notes: the 1212M, 1616M (laptop and PCI), and 1820M (discontinued) all use the Cirrus CS4398 DAC, while the 0404 USB and 0202 USB use the AKM AK4396. They're both top DACs, but I imagine that they have different sound signatures, and I've seen varying opinions; some people prefer one, some prefer the other. I'd give a slight edge to the CS4398 due to its pro audio / studio roots, but that's only my guess.

The real advantage to USB is portability, which I'm sure is a concern in your application. If you're building a small computer, you should take into account that the 1212M requires two PCI slots: one for the sound/DSP card, and another for the separate analog output card (which is connected to the main card with a ribbon cable). This is a great idea, because it helps to decouple the analog output from electrical interference from the computer's motherboard and other devices, but it also means that you'll lose a PCI slot. The other cards, 1616M and 1820M, have separate breakout boxes for the analog outputs that are connected to the main card via Firewire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu
How does it sound from the headphone out with headphones by the way?
I haven't heard the headphone output of the E-MU USBs (and breakout boxes), but most reviews are very positive. Apparently it has enough power to drive pretty much any dynamic headphone you would want. It's probably not as good as a headphone amp, but if you consider it a freebie thrown in with your audio interface, it's probably very nice.
post #22 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitesymphony View Post
Assuming that the Dension Gateway 500 won't mess around with the analog signal in some weird way, it should sound great. This option is more flexible because it allows pretty much any audio device with analog outputs to connect to the car.


None of the E-MU USB devices have direct RCA outputs, because they're designed with balanced audio in mind (but they can run unbalanced, too). They all have XLR/TRS outputs, so you'll need either a TRS to RCA adapter like this (~$3 for two), or custom TRS to RCA cables (~$25 each from Blue Jeans Cable) if you want less connections.

A few side notes: the 1212M, 1616M (laptop and PCI), and 1820M (discontinued) all use the Cirrus CS4398 DAC, while the 0404 USB and 0202 USB use the AKM AK4396. They're both top DACs, but I imagine that they have different sound signatures, and I've seen varying opinions; some people prefer one, some prefer the other. I'd give a slight edge to the CS4398 due to its pro audio / studio roots, but that's only my guess.

The real advantage to USB is portability, which I'm sure is a concern in your application. If you're building a small computer, you should take into account that the 1212M requires two PCI slots: one for the sound/DSP card, and another for the separate analog output card (which is connected to the main card with a ribbon cable). This is a great idea, because it helps to decouple the analog output from electrical interference from the computer's motherboard and other devices, but it also means that you'll lose a PCI slot. The other cards, 1616M and 1820M, have separate breakout boxes for the analog outputs that are connected to the main card via Firewire.


I haven't heard the headphone output of the E-MU USBs (and breakout boxes), but most reviews are very positive. Apparently it has enough power to drive pretty much any dynamic headphone you would want. It's probably not as good as a headphone amp, but if you consider it a freebie thrown in with your audio interface, it's probably very nice.
Interesting. Y'know I'm starting to seriously consider the 1616M laptop card instead of USB. Have you heard the 1616M? Right now I own a SoundBlaster Audigy 2Z PCMCIA card which I use with my headphone and sounds pretty darn good to my ears. How much better do you suspect the 1616M laptop will sound in headphones? Is the 1616M pretty much the top of the line when it comes to laptop cards?
post #23 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu View Post
How much better do you suspect the 1616M laptop will sound in headphones? Is the 1616M pretty much the top of the line when it comes to laptop cards?
It depends on the headphones. I own the 1212M, which has the same DAC as the 1616M, and it sounds pretty good. At ~$450-$500, the 1616M is meant more as a professional audio interface than just a DAC + headphone output, so you might get more for your money by focusing on a separate sound card and headphone amplifier.

If you really want the best of everything, equipment can become expensive. For example, the Benchmark DAC-1, Lavry DA-10 ("Black"), Grace m902, and Apogee Mini-DAC all function as both DACs and headphone amplifiers. They're in the $1-$2k price range.

Anyway, let's get this thread back on topic! How 'bout that AV-710?
post #24 of 511
Thread Starter 
A bump for new AV-710 users...
post #25 of 511
Outstanding thread. Thanks for the discussion. I am currently trying to get SPDIF bit perfect output to my audio processor. So far I have been having some difficulty getting foobar to send bit perfect using kernel streaming and have yet to try ASIO.

Hopefully I will figure this out soon.
post #26 of 511
is this the way that youd all recommend getting bit perfect output from a cpu for music? i use winamp, is it possible to use ks thru winamp with an av710?? if not, i can switch to foobar pretty easily i guess. does this even involve messing with ASIO??
post #27 of 511
Thread Starter 
I think I've seen a Kernel Streaming plug-in for Winamp somewhere. "Bit-perfect output" only applies when you're using the card's digital output (ex. sending audio to an external DAC). This thread is about getting the best analog output from the AV-710. For digital output, you're better off flashing the card with the Prodigy drivers, which is discussed in several other threads.
post #28 of 511
oh ok thanks thats helpful because i am in fact using the digi out to my zhaolu dac.
post #29 of 511
Should all other sound be outputted to 7/8 (black jack) as well? It seemed to work the first time I did it but then I had some hardware compatability issues with my wireless card and now I managed to get everything working again but only foobar seems to come out of 7/8 now. The weird part is it does it whether it's using kernel streaming or direct sound (which is what my other programs should be using). Even when I set it to Hi Sample Rate foobar comes out of 7/8 and everything else comes out of 1/2 and even if I try to map sound in Media Player Classic to the rear speakers nothing comes out of 7/8.
post #30 of 511
Thread Starter 
Make sure you're using the 4.73b drivers. All sound should be coming out of the Alt. Out. (black jack), both KS and otherwise.
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