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Low Budget Vinyl Source - Page 7

post #91 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sduibek View Post
Why no models from Denon?
I believe that memepool's list was for turntables that are readily available for $100. or less. Denons hold their value well and rarely show up priced that low.
post #92 of 187
Denon's turntables are pretty hard to find second hand, and know one I know wants to sell it either.

But the list posted here is a good way to start.

That said, I couldn't hold back trying the new record I bought.
So, I checked the cart that came with the Toshiba (still don't know the brand or type) with a magnifying-glass, and the needle is in perfect condition. All sides are still perfectly smooth, no scratches. According to my father-in-law, the needle was purchased and fitted, but never used.
So because I took the whole cartridge off, I had to re-install it too. The protractors found on this site are a great help, but it takes (alot of) time to set it up correctly. And it really became "that damn needle"!!
But it payed off. The Black Sabbath record sounds alot different now, but there are still not much high tones. So my guess is that the record is recorded that way. Will check it on my fathers 35year old I-don't-know-what-Dual-with-Shure-cartridge tomorrow.

But even the Puccini record I played last week sounded way better now.
So I took the risk and put on the new 'limited edition' Iron Maiden record.
Here are some pics.











The sound is magnificent!! I have all the tracks on cd too, but that record hold so much more details, more emotion, more nuances than I ever heard in de cd-versions. I even played the cd and the record together, so I could listen to a part on cd and switch immediately to the LP and listen to that same part again. I can hardly believe how much different (better) an LP can sound than a cd. It makes me wonder how the Toshiba will sound with the Denon DL110 cart I ordered yesterday.
And also, how would that same record sound when played on a new upperclass turntable.

Guess I'm going to start buying records instead of cd's now.
post #93 of 187
Found someone selling a "Denon DP-7F quartz drive turntable. Good needle. Works as manual turntable." Anyone know about this? Can't find any info on it @ HeadFi. Not sure the price yet but I think it will be pretty low.

Yay Google! Here's some pictures of that model:
http://item.slide.com/r/1/159/i/5H50...uTC9yNKTH-Efn/
http://item.slide.com/r/1/244/i/hkLD...nvszckV5TpgY8/
post #94 of 187
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sduibek View Post
Why no models from Denon?
As Nightowl says above, Denon were mostly about Broadcast and high end, and never really made that many budget decks, so they don't turn up much in the magazines and therefore were omited.

The only review I can find is in Hi-Fi Choice, of the DP-2000 motorboard and DA307 / 309 tonearms sold as the DP2500 in 1980 for the princely sum of UKP250, just 40 odd quid short of the top British deck of the day, the Linn Sondek.
HFC weren't that impressed by the tonearms which were low to medium mass with all the associated issues of wand flexure causing unwanted resonances, but they did like the motorboard and reckoned with a better arm on a heavy support this would be very good indeed.

So if you can pick up one of these flying saucer style Denon motorboards today and mount it in solid plinth with a better modern arm on it like a Rega RB250, it would potentially be stunning. The only fly in the ointment is that Denon used a particular style of magnetic tape speed lock based on markings on the inside of the platter which can wear out with age so don't pay too much for one. These can be reconitioned but it wouldn't be so easy to sort out. A Technics SL1200 would probably be a more reliable bet unless you get it for a bargain price.

Curious that Denon went into low mass tonearm designs considering their core expertise in Moving Coil carts there you go.

I recently bought a DP-30L for a friend and fitted with an appropriate cart, like a Nagaoka MP10/11 it's a good enough entry level deck for under 100USD (I paid about 80). So I included this and the next model up in the section along with Micro Seiki.
post #95 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sduibek View Post
Found someone selling a "Denon DP-7F quartz drive turntable. Good needle. Works as manual turntable." Anyone know about this? Can't find any info on it @ HeadFi. Not sure the price yet but I think it will be pretty low.

Yay Google! Here's some pictures of that model:
http://item.slide.com/r/1/159/i/5H50...uTC9yNKTH-Efn/
http://item.slide.com/r/1/244/i/hkLD...nvszckV5TpgY8/
Alright, so you're going to make a liar out of me. I'd forgotten about this one. This was Denon's entry level consumer table. It's made out of plastic and has a low-mass tonearm that only takes p-mount cartridges, which will limit your choices. In addition the tracking force is fixed at 1.25g, which will further limit your choice of cartridge. The best I can say about it is that it will spin and play records. IIRC it sold for about $129. when it was new. There are better choices out there for sound quality even if it is dirt cheap.
post #96 of 187
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sduibek View Post
Found someone selling a "Denon DP-7F quartz drive turntable. Good needle. Works as manual turntable." Anyone know about this? Can't find any info on it @ HeadFi. Not sure the price yet but I think it will be pretty low..
Those are about 100USD new on Amazon. Just some generic midi system level crap which they probably have left over from the 1980s. Not a proper Denon in other words. If you want a Denon look out for the DP-500M which is widely available and the DP-1300M which is 'Japan only' but available through Audiocubes.
Personally I'd go for a Technics as the tonearms are easier to upgrade.
post #97 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightOwl View Post
Alright, so you're going to make a liar out of me. I'd forgotten about this one. This was Denon's entry level consumer table. It's made out of plastic and has a low-mass tonearm that only takes p-mount cartridges, which will limit your choices. In addition the tracking force is fixed at 1.25g, which will further limit your choice of cartridge. The best I can say about it is that it will spin and play records. IIRC it sold for about $129. when it was new. There are better choices out there for sound quality even if it is dirt cheap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by memepool View Post
Those are about 100USD new on Amazon. Just some generic midi system level crap which they probably have left over from the 1980s. Not a proper Denon in other words. If you want a Denon look out for the DP-500M which is widely available and the DP-1300M which is 'Japan only' but available through Audiocubes.
Personally I'd go for a Technics as the tonearms are easier to upgrade.
Cool, thanks for the info. I'll look elsewhere then I have no particular brand(s) in mind just looking for a good buget vinyl source. I will read over the OP again and other posts in this thread to get the ball rolling. Awesome list you've compiled! Thanks again; i'll post it once I find one
post #98 of 187
Can any of the listed models play 78s? I did a text-find and didn't find "78" anywhere in this thread.
post #99 of 187
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sduibek View Post
Can any of the listed models play 78s? I did a text-find and didn't find "78" anywhere in this thread.
The Lenco models are probably the best for this on the list followed by the older Duals which arn't on the list but seem to be more readily available 2nd hand in the USA.

The Lenco's have the benefit of being able to continuously vary their speed between 16-85RPM so they can play pretty much any record ever pressed at the right speed. NB. Not all 78s are actually recorded at 78rpm for various reasons like lack of standardisation between different compnaies, and a tendency for old record dance records like the Charleston to be pressed a bit slower so that they speed up when played at the right speed.

Lencos are also heavier-made on the whole with a heavier top plate which can accomodate changes of tonearm as well, so worth checking if you can find one.

There is another old German-made deck similar to the Dual called Elac Miracord which seems common in the USA and would be perfect for 78s.

The ability to change headshells or at least stylus profiles is also an important consideration, as groove widths also are different being mono, and so you need at least one 78 stylus, if not a whole selection to optimise the playback from worn old shellac.

These guys Esoteric Sounds seem to be one of the leading specialists in North America, although I'm not convinced by the look of their own 'Rek-O-Kut' decks which resemble rebadged Technics knock-offs sadly having little to do with the famous US turntable manufacturer of the '50s.

They sell everything else you could possibly want for 78s though. KABUSA also sell a modified Technics SL1200 which plays '78s, and good a range of stylii. Lots of enthusiasts favour the DJ stalwart Stanton 500AL cart for the range of profiles available.

Lastly you should also be aware that there is a school of thought which says 78s should actually be played acoustically and not electrically at all... oh yeah.

In other words via the original HMV style horn gramophones which amplifiy the vibrations on the disc without using an electrical transducer of any kind. These guys argue about whether steel needles are better than thorns or wooden ones

I've heard a classic HMV type horn gramophone playing Caruso and there is definitely something in it. It's akin to having someone from nearly 100 years ago singing down a cardboard tube at you from a long way a way and it sounds eerie because it's not like listening to a recording at all but an actual person...
post #100 of 187
Is the Technic SL BD1 any good? I found one for like 10 bucks.
post #101 of 187
I had my dealer order the Denon DL110, but it seems to be unavailable for the moment (it could take 2-6weeks to become available again).
So I ordered an Audio technica AT95E from the mrstylus site.
Hopefully, that one will reach me before the weekend.

Also, I kept my order for the Denon too. That way, I can test them both, and figure out which one is the best.
post #102 of 187
The DL 110 is definitely a better cartridge, but the AT95e is very musical and works well in that arm. You may be pleasantly surprised by it.
post #103 of 187
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMiller1 View Post
Is the Technic SL BD1 any good? I found one for like 10 bucks.
Yes it's a good starter deck from the mid '80s, pretty much identical to the SL-BD20 you can still find today for around 150USD.
post #104 of 187
I'm new to this as well and just got a Technics SL-1400 from my cousin which has to be from the late 70s or maybe early 80s. Can anyone provide a review of the turntable or any feedback?
Also, now I need a phono preamp (I think) and some speakers. I have both at home but they are Yorx and Lloyd's which are apparently brutal. Can anyone recommend any good brands for the equipment I need aside from the turntable? Just like every beginner, I don't want to spend more than $150ish.
Thanks
post #105 of 187
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebs View Post
I'm new to this as well and just got a Technics SL-1400 from my cousin which has to be from the late 70s or maybe early 80s. Can anyone provide a review of the turntable or any feedback?
SL1400 is the same original series as the SL1200 but it's the more automated version see here Technics SL-1400. What you really need is a Denon DL-110 cart to make it shine but if you want an amp and speakers as well you'll be lucky to get very far for 150USD.
Best thing to do is look at craigslist, thrift stores, garage sales and your local classified ads for a '70s Reciever from one of the major Japanese brands as these will have a phono pre-amp built in. Pioneer, Technics, Sony etc and Marantz were very good too. While you're at it see if the vendors are selling their '70s speakers. On the whole the Japanese ones you'll probably come accross won't be the best so look for the likes of AR or JBL assuming you are in the US.
Your priority should be to find out what cart is on the Technics and see if it's worth getting a new stylus for it, or otherwise a new cart. The Technics arm of this era is fairly high mass so the cheapest modern cart that can deal with this would be an Audio Technica 95E for 50USD. Once you have this sorted then look for the other stuff.
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