Sloppy ALO cables, or nitpicking? 56k beware. - Page 3

I would tend to agree...it seems as though the buyer has been a little unfair to the seller IMHO at this point.

I've seen a lot of threads like this, including one where the poster started a thread wondering aloud if he was being scammed because he had not received his package 72 hours after placing his order, and his e-mail asking about it (over the weekend) had not yet been answered. It seems to me that sometimes, with the easy accessability of sites like this, we sometimes fail to consider the impact of our words. I also think that dealing with a seller with whom we have no past experience can sometimes be unnerving, and can ratchet up our response to an inappropriate level.

It would have been one thing if the OP had started a thread titled "Not crazy about the construction of my ALO Cryo-Doc". Given his concerns about the construction, it's not an unreasonable action (I wouldn't do it without contacting the vendor first, but that's another matter). Unfortunately, that's not what happened here. The OP used inflammatory language, and implied intent...having yet to contact the seller and even make him aware that there is a problem. Seems like someone jumped the gun to me.

For something to rise to the level of a scam would require IMHO fraud, as the quoted poster also points out. Not only is this more than a bit unfair to the seller, but it probably also DECREASES the likelihood that the matter will be settled to the satisfaction of all parties. I mean, how accomodating would you be if someone posted that you scammed them on a high-traffic public site like this one? Someone who has in fact received their product, and (given that he's apparently unhappy) hadn't even taken the time to contact you?? Frankly, if it were me, I'd be pissed. I'd feel like my integrity was being impugned, and would probably be tempted to write the buyer off as a crank and move on.

I don't mean for that to seem as harsh as it probably does. I just want to present this as a cautionary tale for all of us. I've seen this sort of thing happen a lot on this site, and I don't see where it helps anyone - buyer or seller - reach a happy outcome. All I would ask, before ANY of us post something like this, is that we take all appropriate measures to resolve the matter with the seller in question.

i guess one could say that the cable is shorter and hence the smaller braids... because in the end, the cost of the cable makes up for the bulk of the expenses that ALO has to pay...

You can change the thread title yourself, and I agree with those suggesting that you should. Ken and I have never done business, but I have spoken to him regarding the Int'l Meet and he seems like one of the nicest sellers around. I have heard/read nothing but good things about him here on Head-Fi, so a thread accusing him of "scamming" you is an extremely harmful thing. Please give him a call and discuss it -- after changing the thread title, that is...

X2, almost;

#1, a lot of posters have accused the thread starter of overreacting. I would suggest that many of the thread responders brow-beating our thread starter are overreacting as well. I didn't get any such impression that our thread starter was insulting Ken/ALO in his thread/title;

#2, what philo said. For a dock that costs 1/2 the price of the iPod itself, I'd expect no less than perfection. My interpretation of Ken's work in this particular scenario is that of "man, you really need to reconsider what your customer paid for a glorified copper wire IC". At best, that dock is poor quality/rushed/careless workmanship. Ken should know better IMO. The cost of materials on such a unit can't top $10 - I know the prices (retail prices to boot) of those materials and the retail cost on that dock would be $20 tops in parts. I've also put together more IC's than I can shake a stick at, and the labour doesn't top 1 hour. Therefore, at a conservative estimate, Ken is charging the craftsman rate of $145/hour for his work. In wine terms, that's in the range of Dom Perignon (not literally...). A craftsman charging that much time for his work should not be shipping products that are "fast food" quality...

My 2c -> let the flames begin, I have my asbestos suit somewhere around here

I think the objection is to the use of the word scammed. I think it struck some folks funny that someone would use such loaded language when they'd not so much as attempted to contact the seller.

There might be a perfectly good reason for having fewer braids...dunno. Never will know until someone registers the complaint...right?

As for the question raised by some about the parts cost, IMHO this ought not be an issue. The issue seems to be about how the product is constructed, not the parts used. The buyer (again, IMHO) signed off on the parts when he bought the product, and so long as the parts are as represented (they seem to be), that's not an issue.

I'm not sure if the copper cable is the bulk of the expenses. Sure it is really HQ cable, but I doubt it costs more than, say, $5/ft. Most of the cost in what you pay for an ALO cable is in the workmanship. I don't think anyone can deny that. Even at $10/ft which can get you very nice silver cable, the parts costs wouldn't hit anywhere near the $80 mark.

Ive put it off for so long buying the jumbo cryo..
I ended up placing an order for the custom 2 silver 2 copper..
nOrI from japan has one..

looks fantastic..

as someone else said if anything its a good thing that most of them arent braided as tight as advertised on ken's site..
you cable looks perfect to me..

you should of contacted him first.

Yehaw.

well workmanship is not really a cost to Ken... cost of time maybe, but i was talking about the parts that he actually paid for...

I find the OP of this thread very uncouth...especially with the title. He should have taken this up with Ken personally via email before starting a thread like this. Ken is a great guy to do business with...I know this because I've done several hundred of dollars of business with him. He can explain why he didn't braid it as many times as pictured or whatever you're having problems with. IMO, having a lot of braids makes it harder to bend. Less braids will keep it from kinking because a lot of people stack their amp on top of their source. Which in most cases can be a very tight situation. For example, I know with my Multi-Array dock, I wish the braids were a little looser so it would have bent a little easier when I stacked my iPod on my Tomahawk.

I love the timing of this thread, Ken isn't even around to defend himself. He's in FL with his daughter.

allow me to clarify: IMO, given the price and claims from ALO re their IC's/docks, I expect perfection and so should anyone who pays for their products. IMO, what our fellow head-fier got was far less than perfection, hence he has the right to complain when the dock's quality was what he showed us. Again all is IMO.

Ken's time is certainly where the bulk of the value is in his cables. He uses good parts and he does fine workmanship from my experience handling and hearing his cables. If people are willing to pay for it -- like the OP and many others -- why is it relevant to this thread how much the materials cost?

For those thinking that there is merit to the notion that advertising photos should be 100% accurate down to the number of twists in a 2-3 inch cable and how tight they are, here are a couple of ALO's other advertising pictures with Jumbo Cryos in action. To my eyes, they look pretty much exactly like the OP's cable.

Does the OP like the sound? Has he compared the cable with a standard dock?

Besides it is his hard earned money. If he is not happy, he should talk to Ken and try to get it clarified.

I'm just wondering how many responders actually read more than his title and digested his entire post. My previous arguments aside, let's stop lambasting the OP for the poor wording of his title and read the entire msg. I feel like this thread has become a virtual lynch mob. signing off on this thread... you won't have to hear from me anymore.

Please don't get me wrong about my comment on the costs of components. Any cable manufacturer is going to have a relatively small parts cost when comparing to retail price simply because the workmanship involved is quite time consuming, especially with line outs. I've only heard of good things when reading about Ken's work. I just wanted to clarify that you are mainly paying for the workmanship, in which case if the OP has an issue with the workmanship, it should be solved quickly.

i think it is better to make it loose than tight, in terms of sound and durability..