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Is there an end in sight to the loudness wars? - Page 2

post #16 of 28
3/9/07 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Pak View Post
That lack of protection would have just fueled the piracy of SACDs. People are already pirating DVD-A discs.

Probably a skewed opinion on my part, but I prefer high fidelity in an in home setting so the fact that both require special players isn't a problem with me. And both high resolution formats weren't intended for the portable audience (or even the niche headphone market), they were targeted towards users with hifi two channel or surround systems.
That protection has done a lot more harm than having no protection IMO. The musical content is still available on redbook and can be pirated there, so does it really matter to have it on SACD?

I do 90% of my listening on the go. I'm writing this post pent up in a hotel room 5 states away from my home. Heck I haven't seen my home in 3 weeks. So obviously portability is very important to me. Although I'm an extreme case I think the makers of SACD should have taken people who really don't have time for at home critical listening into mind.

So they'd rather let thier format die than to open it up and deal with the pirates... who already pirate that content from redbook anyway.
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post #17 of 28
3/9/07 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Pak View Post
That lack of protection would have just fueled the piracy of SACDs. People are already pirating DVD-A discs.

Probably a skewed opinion on my part, but I prefer high fidelity in an in home setting so the fact that both require special players isn't a problem with me. And both high resolution formats weren't intended for the portable audience (or even the niche headphone market), they were targeted towards users with hifi two channel or surround systems.
The problem is that they foreclosed the majority of the market by doing this. Teenagers and young adults are still the biggest buyers of CDs, yet almost none of them have dedicated CD players any more. If it can't be transferred to an iPod or other portable music player, it's worthless to them. For other people, if it won't play in their car, it's worthless to them.

Home listeners are already a small chunk of the pie, then combine that with the requirement to have some kind of dedicated listening rig capable of playing the new material... that target market is too small to be viable, except for classical and perhaps jazz. Classical CDs only account for 2.3% of music sales:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DTL&type=music

It's not protection so much that bothers people... the iTunes music store outsells all classical music CDs combined, and that material is protected. It's that the protected content tends not to be playable on devices people want to listen on. Those forms of protected content are doomed from the start.
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post #18 of 28
3/9/07 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalbath3737 View Post
I would have bought into SACD, but then there is the "protection" on them. Which makes the completely useless. I'd rather invest in vinyl than SACD. Atleast that can be copied to my iPod
If you can copy vinyl to your iPod, why wouldn't you be able to do it with SACD? It doesn't have to be digital to digital transfer to get the same recording quality you get when transferring your vinyl.
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post #19 of 28
3/9/07 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleestack View Post
If you can copy vinyl to your iPod, why wouldn't you be able to do it with SACD? It doesn't have to be digital to digital transfer to get the same recording quality you get when transferring your vinyl.
Well I said I'd rather buy vinyl... but i don't even bother with that. To much a waste of time when i can just buy red book and digitally copy my music.
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post #20 of 28
3/9/07 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalbath3737 View Post
Well I said I'd rather buy vinyl... but i don't even bother with that. To much a waste of time when i can just buy red book and digitally copy my music.
I see. But you did say you would rather buy vinyl than SACD b/c at least it can be copied to your iPod. My point was simply that the method of getting SACD to your iPod v/ vinyl is essentially the same.

I happen to like the SACD format because many jazz and classical recordings have simpy been mastered better on the SACD release. For those not into those genres, it isn't a wise investment. I like the occasional multi-chnnel mix, but I wouldn't buy the format just for that either.
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post #21 of 28
3/9/07 at 6:58pm
No, there's no end in sight.
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post #22 of 28
3/9/07 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markl View Post
No, there's no end in sight.
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post #23 of 28
3/9/07 at 7:45pm
Well, with some CDs having less than 1Db of dynamic range, at least it can't get any worse. Unless of course, record companies decided to go with "lets just sell everything directly on iTunes, screw this CD crap".
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post #24 of 28
3/10/07 at 3:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalbath3737 View Post
I would have bought into SACD, but then there is the "protection" on them. Which makes the completely useless. I'd rather invest in vinyl than SACD. Atleast that can be copied to my iPod
You can transfer music from SACD to your iPod. A SACD player will downgrade a DSD signal to 16 bit/44.1kHz (Red Book) for digital out. Not SACD, but still not bad. Most SACDs are hybrid, anyway, so you can rip them like any other CD.

Personally, I think the point of SACD would be lost in a car or on foot. Listening isn't your primary focus when doing those and the higher resolution doesn't really matter. That's why I have no problem listening to AAC on the iPod. But at home, when I can relax and concentrate on the music, SACD and quality open headphones *really* pay off.

The format isn't dead, either. There are almost 4,500 titles with more released every week. It's successful as a classical niche format and the jazz library isn't half bad.

But as for compression... I think the only solution is to stop consuming the "hot" releases. I've switched the majority of my listening to SACD and vinyl, where it isn't an issue. And yeah, I do pay for my discs. If more people bought the good stuff, more would be released that way.
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post #25 of 28
3/10/07 at 3:43am
For a second there, I read that as "There are almost 4,500 titles released every week."

I was going to ask where on earth you got such a statistic.
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post #26 of 28
3/10/07 at 4:35am
I think the demand side has a lot to do with it. Our lives/environment will never become quieter. IMHO superior media format won't end this war. The only chance to stop it is when negative results are widely known among the public.
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post #27 of 28
3/10/07 at 5:41am
Speaking of loudness, do you know who I really feel sorry for? People who live in apartments or condos. Everybody these days has some sort of system that includes a subwoofer, home theater setup, etc., that booms bass right through the walls.

This combined with balsa-wood quality modern construction, and you've got a whole bunch of apartment dwellers bumping heads with neighbors over noise.

WUMP WUMP WUMP WUMP WUMP!

I'm glad I don't share walls anymore.
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post #28 of 28
3/10/07 at 5:47am
the rock library ain't too shabby, either. about 400 discs, and i counted around 70 artists that i like very much.. definitely enough for a 100 SACD collection. respectable blues library too.

Uncle Erik, while i agree that it's unnecessary to have SACD quality on an iPod, it still limits computer as source and music server users. the main problem i have with the format is me having to buy a dedicated player. i just don't want that kind of bottleneck! if you're going to have an SACD setup, you're going to have a redbook setup too, and i want to use the DAC from the redbook setup for SACD too. and as i said before, the costs just really add up.

in a perfect world i'd have the money for an Esoteric player. let's just say the world ain't perfect.
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