Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › Hotrodding the X-Fi: A Layman's Guide (No 56k)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Hotrodding the X-Fi: A Layman's Guide (No 56k) - Page 95

post #1411 of 2182
bichi, thanks so much for your detailed information!!

1) Main goal is to solve your "shutdown" problem first, sound quality disscussion later.
Ter>>>>>>> Yes, that's true!
2) What is your ambient room and internal case temperatures? (should be Russian winter there, right?)
Ter>>>>>>> ~ 18C ambient, the chassis cover is open.
3) Does the blue X-FI LED stay lit when your card is in "shutdown" mode? (powered by VR3)
Ter>>>>>>> Yes, lit when in "shutdown mode".
4) PSU make and model?
Ter>>>>>>> A small factory product. I don't think it's the PSU caused the shutdown.
5) Solder type and flux type? (SnPb or SnAgCu with rosen flux)
Ter>>>>>>> My friend did the mods, he is the electronics technician and used good solder and flux.
6) Assumes your added capacitors are not defective and do not have "high leakage" problem.
Ter>>>>>>> Tested before applications.
7) Post a picture of your card installed in your PC?
Ter>>>>>>> not current have the pictures yet. There is no adjacent components near the card in the open chassis.

-----------
I'll send the card to my friend tomorrow to do the following changes
1. change the VR1 and VR4 to large current ones or just cover them with heatsink.
2. change back the 2 diodes near F1.

Besides the above changes, I want to confirm with you some of my other concerns to see if some other changes can be made together tomorrow. Could you please have time to answer them?

1. Is it possible to change the 24.576m crystal oscillator to a better 4-pin TCXO 1ppm one? CL value?

2. Are there any components missing in original board due to budget control of Creative that if added can improve stability or sound quality? If so, what can be added? specs of them?

3. For digital parts, could you confirm which caps can be replaced instead of my electrolytic ones? Is that okay I keep all the caps as electrolytic ones from sound quality perspective or OSCON ones for digital parts better for sound quality?

4. According to Germanium, I shorted all the 2 line-in caps and 16 line-out caps. Is that okay if I just use earphones and do not use mike?

5. Can I short c14 and c29?

6. c149 in your picture will not be used if CN3 and breakout box is not used, right?

Thanks!
post #1412 of 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ter1 View Post
...Besides the above changes, I want to confirm with you some of my other concerns to see if some other changes can be made together tomorrow. Could you please have time to answer them?
Thanks!...
3) Does the blue X-FI LED stay lit when your card is in "shutdown" mode? (powered by VR3)
Ter>>>>>>> Yes, lit when in "shutdown mode".
ANS: Good! - at least VR3 is not entering thermal/overload shutdown.

1. Is it possible to change the 24.576m crystal oscillator to a better 4-pin TCXO 1ppm one? CL value?
ANS: Possible, but will require design and components to adapt 4-pin to 2-pin. Consult/search oscillator company's application notes for details or ask your "tech" friend. This is not a "casual" task.

2. Are there any components missing in original board due to budget control of Creative that if added can improve stability or sound quality? If so, what can be added? specs of them?
ANS: See "green" comments in picture, post #1409. "Rounded/colored" capacitors are tantalum at stock values. Critical capacitors are noted in post #1404. Audio coupling capacitor type/values and shorting vs. no-short is a personal decision, balancing risk against sound quality. Same for bypassing power capacitors.

Audio coupling capacitor opinons are wide, ie., "electrolytics suck for audio coupling," "only use bipolar," "only use paper-oil," "Infinicap are the best," yakkity-yak.... See post #1312, coupling-cap value and its effect on frequency response. See this as one of MANY opinions: http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3171

3. For digital parts, could you confirm which caps can be replaced instead of my electrolytic ones? Is that okay I keep all the caps as electrolytic ones from sound quality perspective or OSCON ones for digital parts better for sound quality?
ANS: Same answer as question #2. Depends on your personal taste. Some claim "ultra-low ESR capacitors," ie., OSCON, E/PCAP, etc., sound too harsh while others claim better "accuracy/soundstage."

4. According to Germanium, I shorted all the 2 line-in caps and 16 line-out caps. Is that okay if I just use earphones and do not use mike?
ANS: Data to make your personal decision is in post #1404. I would recommend discussing technical risks, ie., shorting causing additional current load and component stress with your "tech" friend. Use of headphone only or "no-mic" makes no difference, relative to additional component stress. (note that added load influences passive resistors as well as regulators)

5. Can I short c14 and c29?
ANS: Again, personal decision. (note that C14/C29 each have a +2.5vdc @ 1.45ma BIAS, supplied by VR4, filtered by C193)

6. c149 in your picture will not be used if CN3 and breakout box is not used, right?
ANS: Correct, however, no reason to remove, even if external box or external power is not used.
post #1413 of 2182
SB0550 - X-FI Elite
- Line-OUT shorted with 100ohm SMT film resistor. (C45, C35, C58, C49)
- Line-OUT and Line-IN opamps: National Semi LME49860
- down -1.5db compared to 47uf, cap-coupled, adjusted RMAA v6.0.6 REC level from 61% to 67%, for "0db."
- BIAS: sleeve-ring: +3.2mvdc; sleeve-tip: -3.2mvdc (compared to +0.25mvdc with 47uf coupling-caps)
- other component values as shown in post #1409

SUBJECTIVE: Nice, flat with good definition across audio band.

RMAA v6.0.6 Results (48/24 and 96/24)
SUMMARY: http://www.esnips.com/doc/c572b999-0.../X-FI-MOD-090b
DETAIL: http://www.esnips.com/doc/a0b56b90-4.../X-FI-MOD-091b
post #1414 of 2182
Bichi now that you got the card working how does it sound??
post #1415 of 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bichi View Post
3) Does the blue X-FI LED stay lit when your card is in "shutdown" mode? (powered by VR3)
Ter>>>>>>> Yes, lit when in "shutdown mode".
ANS: Good! - at least VR3 is not entering thermal/overload shutdown.

1. Is it possible to change the 24.576m crystal oscillator to a better 4-pin TCXO 1ppm one? CL value?
ANS: Possible, but will require design and components to adapt 4-pin to 2-pin. Consult/search oscillator company's application notes for details or ask your "tech" friend. This is not a "casual" task.

2. Are there any components missing in original board due to budget control of Creative that if added can improve stability or sound quality? If so, what can be added? specs of them?
ANS: See "green" comments in picture, post #1409. "Rounded/colored" capacitors are tantalum at stock values. Critical capacitors are noted in post #1404. Audio coupling capacitor type/values and shorting vs. no-short is a personal decision, balancing risk against sound quality. Same for bypassing power capacitors.

Audio coupling capacitor opinons are wide, ie., "electrolytics suck for audio coupling," "only use bipolar," "only use paper-oil," "Infinicap are the best," yakkity-yak.... See post #1312, coupling-cap value and its effect on frequency response. See this as one of MANY opinions: http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3171

3. For digital parts, could you confirm which caps can be replaced instead of my electrolytic ones? Is that okay I keep all the caps as electrolytic ones from sound quality perspective or OSCON ones for digital parts better for sound quality?
ANS: Same answer as question #2. Depends on your personal taste. Some claim "ultra-low ESR capacitors," ie., OSCON, E/PCAP, etc., sound too harsh while others claim better "accuracy/soundstage."

4. According to Germanium, I shorted all the 2 line-in caps and 16 line-out caps. Is that okay if I just use earphones and do not use mike?
ANS: Data to make your personal decision is in post #1404. I would recommend discussing technical risks, ie., shorting causing additional current load and component stress with your "tech" friend. Use of headphone only or "no-mic" makes no difference, relative to additional component stress. (note that added load influences passive resistors as well as regulators)

5. Can I short c14 and c29?
ANS: Again, personal decision. (note that C14/C29 each have a +2.5vdc @ 1.45ma BIAS, supplied by VR4, filtered by C193)

6. c149 in your picture will not be used if CN3 and breakout box is not used, right?
ANS: Correct, however, no reason to remove, even if external box or external power is not used.
Thanks!!
1. The short of line-in cap C29 and C14 will not cause harmful consequences to hardware, right? Just more current through VR4? I remembered Germanium said shorting of these 2 will cause hardware failure and damage card.

2. From your newly posted picture, I see you added L12 "ferrite bead", what's the function of this? any more specs that I can choose to add it?

Thanks!
post #1416 of 2182
deleted
post #1417 of 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by germanium View Post
Bichi now that you got the card working how does it sound??
ummm, what to say.....
- clean, flat dynamics, excellent definition and power, airy and tight with NJM2114, LME49860, AD8599 and of course, the OPA2132, with its "Burr-Brown" sound.
- delivers excellent monitor playback when doing NLE work with Vegas 7.0e, but can now hear filter defects applied in rendered tracks.
- analog Line-IN recording is excellent, but a curse at the same time... read "hiiiissssssssss..." from old, original sources.
- gotta fight impluse to upgrade playback to M-Audio BX-8's or Behringer B2031A's and use current BX-5's for rear channels...
- if you watch Stargate SG1, its like season 4, episode 18, "The Light..." - LOL!
post #1418 of 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ter1 View Post
Thanks!!
1. The short of line-in cap C29 and C14 will not cause harmful consequences to hardware, right? Just more current through VR4? I remembered Germanium said shorting of these 2 will cause hardware failure and damage card.

2. From your newly posted picture, I see you added L12 "ferrite bead", what's the function of this? any more specs that I can choose to add it?

Thanks!
#1 ANS: Suggest you ask your "tech" friend to explain to you... (I doubt that Germanium said shorting C29, C14 Line-IN, differential coupling caps would damage the card)

#2 ANS: eh? added L12? - nope, its a stock part. Google be your friend... do some reading, then ask for clarification.
post #1419 of 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bichi View Post
- analog Line-IN recording is excellent, but a curse at the same time... read "hiiiissssssssss..." from old, original sources.
By hissss you mean from the old recording or from the ADC?
post #1420 of 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by germanium View Post
By hissss you mean from the old recording or from the ADC?
eh?
- originial 1" tape from Studer 24-track, dubbed down to ReVox A-77, 1/4" tape, cira 1982.
- playback output from TEAC X-1000R to X-FI Elite analog Line-IN.
- since X-FI Elite record section is much more accurate and tape hiss has same dynamics as whitenoise:
- therefore, it's ummm, more "apparent" than "rounded," with less-accurate recording device.
- (getting plenty of exercise, carrying that beast from entertainment room to PC/lab room.... LOL!)
post #1421 of 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bichi View Post
#1 ANS: Suggest you ask your "tech" friend to explain to you... (I doubt that Germanium said shorting C29, C14 Line-IN, differential coupling caps would damage the card)

#2 ANS: eh? added L12? - nope, its a stock part. Google be your friend... do some reading, then ask for clarification.
I didn't say damage but the ADC will likely not function correctly. It needs the 2.4-2.5 volts to operate correctly & shorting those particular caps will sink the D.C. through the output section of u3 opamp which could cause a problem if there is sufficient current to over heat the opamp. It is likely that little or no sound will be recorded in this configuration & what little sound is recorded I can pretty much guarrantee to be severely distorted.

The inductor was indeed a stock part I removed myself.
post #1422 of 2182
deleted
post #1423 of 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bichi View Post
eh?
- originial 1" tape from Studer 24-track, dubbed down to ReVox A-77, 1/4" tape, cira 1982.
- playback output from TEAC X-1000R to X-FI Elite analog Line-IN.
- since X-FI Elite record section is much more accurate and tape hiss has same dynamics as whitenoise:
- therefore, it's ummm, more "apparent" than "rounded," with less-accurate recording device.
- (getting plenty of exercise, carrying that beast from entertainment room to PC/lab room.... LOL!)
Hopefully you don't get a hernia carrying that computer . It does look pretty heavy. Or is it the recorder your talking about??
post #1424 of 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bichi View Post
3) Does the blue X-FI LED stay lit when your card is in "shutdown" mode? (powered by VR3) Ter>>>>>>> Yes, lit when in "shutdown mode". ANS: Good! - at least VR3 is not entering thermal/overload shutdown.
Ter1:
- corrected mistake: VR3 does NOT supply X-FI SB0550 Elite LEDs, but supplied direct from +5vdc PCI bus.
- post #1404 updated, plus additional new info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by germanium View Post
Hopefully you don't get a hernia carrying that computer . It does look pretty heavy. Or is it the recorder your talking about??
-duuuh... As if I'd also carry display, keyboard, mouse, playback speakers, etc.. LOL!
post #1425 of 2182
Bichi,

How did you get your noise floor on the XtremeMusic down to 110+ dB?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Computer Audio
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Computer Audio › Hotrodding the X-Fi: A Layman's Guide (No 56k)