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Hotrodding the X-Fi: A Layman's Guide (No 56k) - Page 91

post #1351 of 2194
Links are working now bichi
post #1352 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bichi View Post
SOIC8 to DIP8 Carrier
- made from spare surplus parts
- still needs epoxy "potting" for added mechanical strength
- SOIC socket installed on SB0460
- allows DIP8 opamps to be tested with SB0460 and SB0550

Intial test of adapter/carrier, plugged in an old Texas Instruments TL082, DIP8, circa 1980, JFET frontend.
- surprised by audio quality and did RMAA tests, out of curiosity.
- seems to be a nice match with Line-Out caps, Panasonic S, SMT, 33uf @ 25vdc
- short audition with "Put Your Records On," Corinne Bailey Rae, source 48/24
- firm bottom, accurate image, clean highs, very pleasant overall...

SOIC to DIP8 Carrier:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/4e49edc3-b.../X-FI-MOD-075b

SOIC to DIP8 installed on SB0460:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/4c65f579-f.../X-FI-MOD-076b

RMAA Results: 48/24/48 and 96/24/96
SUMMARY: http://www.esnips.com/doc/5eda7602-0.../X-FI-MOD-077b
DETAILED: http://www.esnips.com/doc/b413cc2d-7.../X-FI-MOD-078b

Texas Instruments TL082-CP:
http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/tl082

EDIT: reloaded eSnips stuff with new links
Measures better than manufacturers specs for this chip on your board. Not bad for such an old part. looks more like near the limits of the ADC than that of the opamp itself. Maybe that is why that opamp is still around as it seems very conservatively rated.
post #1353 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by germanium View Post
The 5 volts for the mic is injected between the flexijack & the line in coupling caps & if you don't use the flexijack for a mike then the 5 volts is not injected.This voltage is injected on the right channel, in other words the ring on the tip ring sleeve 1/8th inch plug. In Windows Vista you can actually disable individual inputs so they don't show & can't therefore be selected. For those with Windows XP I'm not sure if that can be done so I no longer recommend shorting the line in coupling caps on XP machines. If you short them on a Windows Vista machine make sure you disable the mike input for the flexijack first.

Update, tried to find where to disable inividual inputs on XP but was a no go.


For those with Windows Vista to disable the mike inpute for the flexijack right click on the speaker icon in the taskbar & select recording devices then right click on micrphone & select disable.

There are two other coupling caps in the line in circuit after the line in opamp. These are 47uf caps on the other side of the ADC & very very close to those 4 large caps above the ADC.

I'm waiting on a new board as I was probing around on the board when it was live & accidently shorted the power supply to the relays to the left channel line-in. When there is no plug in the flexijack the left channel is shorted to ground. When I accidently shorted the relay power to the left channel line-in ther was no plug in the flexijack & I ended up blowing the left channel trace & seems like all of the opamps that lead to the ADC may have been fried as well, even the ones behind the second set of coupling caps. I will be getting new Elite pro card on tuesday if all goes well. The output section on the old card still works so I'm still able to listen to music on old card, just not able to do anymore RMAA tests on this card.

The other caps other than the ones I mentioned to bypass with metalyzed film caps are for the line-in & have no bearing on the sound you hear at the speakers though they may improve the specs as read by RMAA & help if you plan on doing any recording with the line-in.

Oh, it's a pity to hear the first card is malfunctioning,, you can render it to a repair man, great chances it can be repaired!~

For the other 2 coupling caps for Line-in "These are 47uf caps on the other side of the ADC & very very close to those 4 large caps above the ADC",
1. do you suggest to short them in addition to the former 2 ones you mentioned before?
2. The 5v injection to the mike right channel can be offsetted by shorting these 2 additional ones? Or do you know how to get rid of the 5v injection for mike?
3. I need to always connect the line-in to the output of a winradio advanced radio. After I did the first mod to short the 2 line-in caps, I didn't try to connect it to the radio, do you think there is a risk to destroy the cards? If you suggest to do the additional 2 caps, I'll do that too. I think it will only impact mike not line-in, right?? I can't affort to destroy the $750 radio

4. Can you suggest which caps need to be bypassed to let a better recording results?

Thanks in advance!!
post #1354 of 2194
- Line-Out opamp: NJM5532
- Line-Out: Panasonic S, SMT, 33uf @ 10vdc
- Line-In: Panasonic S, SMT, 10uf @ 16vdc
- C177: Rubycon YXG, low-ESR, 3300uf @ 10vdc
- other power de-coupling capacitors are various tantalum and polymer electrolytics, equal to stock values
- Model: X-FI Fat1; SB0460
- XP SP2; Creative Driver: v5.12.6.1187

OBJECTIVE: (compared to National Semi LME49860; same family as LM4560, LME49720/860 series)
- NJR upgraded part from NJM1458 series
- appears to be used on X-FI Elite Pro Line-IN section, post Line-In opamp

SUBJECTIVE:
- not critically critiqued, but tested more for electrical compatibility with SB0460
- pleasant without any ill effects and appears to be more detailed than stock NJM4556
- excellent for a "jelly-bean," classed opamp
- playback: M-Audio BX-5A

Will most likely replace 4558's in two SONY settop DVD players with this part

RMAA Results:
DETAIL: NJM5532 - http://www.esnips.com/doc/5274ea7f-3.../X-FI-MOD-079b

REF:
NJM5532: http://semicon.njr.co.jp/njr/hp/file...?_mediaId=5764
RubyCon YXG: http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/...inum/e_yxg.pdf
post #1355 of 2194
- Line-Out opamps: Texas Instruments/Burr-Brown FET Sound-Plus: OPA2134 and Enhanced-JFET Low-Offset: TL052
- DIP8 versions of above tested with SOIC8 to DIP8 carrier
- Line-Out: Panasonic S, SMT, 33uf @ 10vdc
- Line-In: Panasonic S, SMT, 10uf @ 16vdc
- C177: Rubycon YXG, low-ESR, 3300uf @ 10vdc
- other power de-coupling capacitors are various tantalum and polymer electrolytics, equal to stock values
- Model: X-FI Fat1; SB0460
- XP SP2; Creative Driver: v5.12.6.1187

OBJECTIVE: (compared to National Semi LME49860; same family as LM4560, LME49720/860 series)
- slightly less high freq response
- both above TI/BB parts have slightly higher THD and IMD figures
- OPA2134 output current: 35ma
- TL052 output current: 80ma each channel (might be an option for headphoners)

SUBJECTIVE:
- both are warmer, flatter but remain accurate with good image retention (some report this as the "Burr-Brown" sound)
- some might classify them as "less harsh/bright/digital," mid-bands and highs
- bottom is tight with less frontstage (probably more appealing to classical listeners and not to bassheads)
- "warmness" is probably due to richer harmonics at even spectral values and slight rolloff at high-band
- pleasant and easy to listen to at both low and high SPL levels
- playback: M-Audio BX-5A

Picture:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/b32b20c2-c.../X-FI-MOD-080b

RMAA Results:
DETAIL: OPA2134 - http://www.esnips.com/doc/10164bfe-d.../X-FI-MOD-081b
DETAIL: TL052 - http://www.esnips.com/doc/204e2f10-b.../X-FI-MOD-082b

REF:
OPA2134: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/opa2134
TL052: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/tl052a
RubyCon YXG: http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/...inum/e_yxg.pdf
post #1356 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ter1 View Post
Oh, it's a pity to hear the first card is malfunctioning,, you can render it to a repair man, great chances it can be repaired!~

For the other 2 coupling caps for Line-in "These are 47uf caps on the other side of the ADC & very very close to those 4 large caps above the ADC",
1. do you suggest to short them in addition to the former 2 ones you mentioned before?
2. The 5v injection to the mike right channel can be offsetted by shorting these 2 additional ones? Or do you know how to get rid of the 5v injection for mike?
3. I need to always connect the line-in to the output of a winradio advanced radio. After I did the first mod to short the 2 line-in caps, I didn't try to connect it to the radio, do you think there is a risk to destroy the cards? If you suggest to do the additional 2 caps, I'll do that too. I think it will only impact mike not line-in, right?? I can't affort to destroy the $750 radio

4. Can you suggest which caps need to be bypassed to let a better recording results?

Thanks in advance!!
1. Have not tested new card yet but from what I remember there is D.C. voltage there that needs to be preserved on the second set of coupling caps. This voltage offset probably is needed for the ADC to work properly as the ADC has only plus voltages powering it , no minus voltages. so do not direct couple there.

I need to get better probes for my volt meter before testing voltages as it was a simple slip of my current probes as they are not sharp enough to dig in to the solder & not slip that damaged my old card.


2.No the 5 volts going to the mike cannot be offsetted by shorting the two additional caps & could be damaging.

3. never activate the microphone when connected to anything else but a microphone as the 5 volt D.C. is always there at the input jack when microphone is activated but not when line-in is selected. If you have Windows Vista I suggest disabling the microphone if connecting to anything but a microphone. If you don't have Vista make very sure that line-in is selected before connecting to any other source than a microphone. On Vista you can still remove it from the disabled list if you need to use it for a micrphone input later.

4. Waiting to get better probes before further testing of voltages to prevent the costly replacement again. 300 dollars is not chump change to me.

The new card stock does measure slightly better than the old modified one did but still don't like the sound of it. In particular piano sounds stripped of some of its harmonics & sounds dead as a result. There are high frequecies there on cymbles & synths but piano sounds lifeless on new stock card.
post #1357 of 2194
So, I've read through but am still unsure of what the verdict on shorting the 4 caps by the opamp is?
post #1358 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautama View Post
So, I've read through but am still unsure of what the verdict on shorting the 4 caps by the opamp is?
I would like to know too. Been hearing mixed results. And regarding the power filter cap, can it use 6.3V caps?
post #1359 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypsee View Post
I would like to know too. Been hearing mixed results. And regarding the power filter cap, can it use 6.3V caps?
It depends. Are your amps DC coupled? If so, keep them. If not, short them if you like You can replace them with some OSCONs. I use 47uf FM, as I don't have OSCON at the moment.

6.3V, yes, even with a 20% voltage tolerance. It's regulated down to 1.2V, apparently.
post #1360 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautama View Post
So, I've read through but am still unsure of what the verdict on shorting the 4 caps by the opamp is?
Benefit of D.C. coupling is clearer sound & better soundstage but slightly worse specs. Very very slightly worse, not durastic at all. .0002% worse distortion & .3db worse signal to noise & about the same dynamic range. better frequency response in the bass especially by .02-.04db depending if you also direct couple the line-in to the first line in opamp. The worse THD distortion is strictly the second harmonic as all other THD componants are better. Do not connect to a D.C. coupled amp though unless you have less than 10mv D.C. offset at the output of the card.

Note you have to have a pretty resolving system to hear much of the differences. Also when I was comparing befor I was using creatives own tests as I had not run stock tests on the previous card which are far worse than mine. On my system it tests considerably better than creatives tests even stock but even my modded card outshined the creative tests by a wide margin. This is testamony to good powersupply selection as my computer powersupply is very clean.
post #1361 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by germanium View Post
1. Have not tested new card yet but from what I remember there is D.C. voltage there that needs to be preserved on the second set of coupling caps. This voltage offset probably is needed for the ADC to work properly as the ADC has only plus voltages powering it , no minus voltages. so do not direct couple there.

I need to get better probes for my volt meter before testing voltages as it was a simple slip of my current probes as they are not sharp enough to dig in to the solder & not slip that damaged my old card.


2.No the 5 volts going to the mike cannot be offsetted by shorting the two additional caps & could be damaging.

3. never activate the microphone when connected to anything else but a microphone as the 5 volt D.C. is always there at the input jack when microphone is activated but not when line-in is selected. If you have Windows Vista I suggest disabling the microphone if connecting to anything but a microphone. If you don't have Vista make very sure that line-in is selected before connecting to any other source than a microphone. On Vista you can still remove it from the disabled list if you need to use it for a micrphone input later.

4. Waiting to get better probes before further testing of voltages to prevent the costly replacement again. 300 dollars is not chump change to me.

The new card stock does measure slightly better than the old modified one did but still don't like the sound of it. In particular piano sounds stripped of some of its harmonics & sounds dead as a result. There are high frequecies there on cymbles & synths but piano sounds lifeless on new stock card.
Thank you very much for your information! Then I'll not short the 2 other line-in coupling caps.

Waiting for your further advice!
post #1362 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by holland View Post
It depends. Are your amps DC coupled? If so, keep them. If not, short them if you like You can replace them with some OSCONs. I use 47uf FM, as I don't have OSCON at the moment.

6.3V, yes, even with a 20% voltage tolerance. It's regulated down to 1.2V, apparently.
Thanks for the reply I don't know whether my Klipsch GMX were DC coupled or not. I think I better leave them if I getting the card
post #1363 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ter1 View Post
Thank you very much for your information! Then I'll not short the 2 other line-in coupling caps.

Waiting for your further advice!
Got some new probes & there is 2.46 volts on the 2nd set of coupling caps so leave those coupling caps in place.
post #1364 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by germanium View Post
Benefit of D.C. coupling is clearer sound & better soundstage but slightly worse specs. Very very slightly worse, not durastic at all. .0002% worse distortion & .3db worse signal to noise & about the same dynamic range. better frequency response in the bass especially by .02-.04db depending if you also direct couple the line-in to the first line in opamp. The worse THD distortion is strictly the second harmonic as all other THD componants are better. Do not connect to a D.C. coupled amp though unless you have less than 10mv D.C. offset at the output of the card.

Note you have to have a pretty resolving system to hear much of the differences. Also when I was comparing befor I was using creatives own tests as I had not run stock tests on the previous card which are far worse than mine. On my system it tests considerably better than creatives tests even stock but even my modded card outshined the creative tests by a wide margin. This is testamony to good powersupply selection as my computer powersupply is very clean.

Aye, my Seasonic is pretty clean , and the path on my motherboard uses Rubycon so I'm good to go there.

Were the earlier notions that coupling the caps could cause dc to leak into the headphones/speakers proven false or am I safe with that since I have an amp? If the latter, would shorting the line in caps hurt my mic?
post #1365 of 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gautama View Post
Aye, my Seasonic is pretty clean , and the path on my motherboard uses Rubycon so I'm good to go there.

Were the earlier notions that coupling the caps could cause dc to leak into the headphones/speakers proven false or am I safe with that since I have an amp? If the latter, would shorting the line in caps hurt my mic?
It depnds if it's a D.C. coupled amp (different from mere direct coupling as it will amplify D.C. whereas mere direct coupling doesn't. D.C. coupling implies all stages are direct coupled & no capacitor going to ground from the negative feedback loop. In a standard direct coupled amp this capacitor is still present in the fedback loop but not in a D.C. coupled amp. Consequently a D.C. amp will amplify any D.C. offset present in the output of the card resulting in overheating the amp & possably damagng the speakers. Headphones directly connected to the card should be ok as the D.C. offset is not huge but it is enough to cause problems with D.C. coupled amps on the SB460 card. D.C. offset is less on the SB550 card & may in some cases be safe with D.C. coupled amps. On my SB550 I get 5millivolts or less which is safe with most D.C. coupled amps.

It won't hurt the mike but the mike will not work if used in the flexijack when the line-in caps are shorted.
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