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post #76 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by naamanf View Post
You really come off high and mighty.
That's an unfair characterization of my comments. I simply have more intellectual confidence in what I say. The reason is very simple: I have gone through the trainings, labs, exams, and I have lived and breathed this stuff for 2 years after my education.

I neither affirm nor deny your conjecture on cryo treatments. I am simply stating that CPU manufacturing do incorporate heat treat as part of the process. On the issue of whether cryo/heat on conductor makes a difference, my intuition tells me the answer is no. Yet it does not contradict the theory that cable makes a difference. You are trying to overgeneralize the inverse of a theory by asking a question that casts shadow over that theory. And that, is your fallacy.
post #77 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post
PS- a hobbyist should not have to have an EE to prudently purchase a product.
Sometimes its better NOT to have an EE degree to be in this hobby. Having an EE is sometimes counterproductive to audio nirvana. Like many whom I have debated with on this thread, I also argued from their side in my earlier years, having had some basic classes under my belt. Had I not had an EE degree, I would probably reached my current understanding much quicker. EE degree is a curse on one hand and a handy tool on the other.
post #78 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
That's an unfair characterization of my comments.
Not really

10+ years working with equipment where current flow and signal propagation is everything has also tough me a lot.

Plus being an audio nut over the last 20 years has taught me thing or two.

As an EE I would think you would be able to grasp the simple principle of current flow and basic power supply design. Not to mention simple scientific reasoning. What you have done is try to throw the topic off course by trying to impress upon the readers how you obviously must have superior knowledge based on the fact that your an EE. And can throw out acronyms like VLSI which has nothing to do with power cables and the current flow through them. We are not talking about designing CPUs.
post #79 of 229
Well, when i recabled my K81DJs, it was certainly an audible difference. Granted that starquad isn't really top of the line, I could still tell a profound difference.
post #80 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
Many people can't distinguish high-bitrate MP3s from uncompressed (I freely admit I can't as well), some even can't distinguish low-bitrate MP3s from uncompressed (which I can). Does this mean that (all) people who pretend to hear the difference imagine them and others who say there's no difference to be heard are right? No.
I don't think that this is a good analogy. In the case of MP3s, it is easy to demonstrate empirically that the MP3 and the uncompressed file are different. You need to look no further than the file size to see that there is information in the uncompressed file that is not present in the MP3 file. Thus, the only question is whether those differences are audible to a particular listener. Though I personally cannot tell the difference between high bitrate MP3s and the uncompressed original, there are others who have demonstrated in controlled listening tests that they can.

In the case of cables, however, there is a lack of both empirical evidence of differences and a lack of controlled listening tests confirming that whatever differences may exist are audible.
post #81 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Febs View Post
I don't think that this is a good analogy...
There's no «perfect» analogy needed to demonstrate that people's hearing abilities are different. And that the fact that somebody can't hear an effect doesn't tell it isn't real and audible to others nonetheless.
.
post #82 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by naamanf View Post
Not really

10+ years working with equipment where current flow and signal propagation is everything has also tough me a lot.
A high-voltage technician would have the same qualifications as what you have stated. Certainly does not invoke confidence in one's comments on the issue of whether cable makes a difference on a molecular level. If you are not an EE, material scientist, or have not had any education in either whether at work, in school or both, I don't feel you have the qualification to comment on 2ndary and tertiary effects of the composition of cable on audio frequency band.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naamanf View Post
Plus being an audio nut over the last 20 years has taught me thing or two.
This comment is of no moment in our discussion.
post #83 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
A high-voltage technician would have the same qualifications as what you have stated. Certainly does not invoke confidence in one's comments on the issue of whether cable makes a difference on a molecular level. If you are not an EE, material scientist, or have not had any education in either whether at work, in school or both, I don't feel you have the qualification to comment on 2ndary and tertiary effects of the composition of cable on audio frequency band.
Qualification has nothing to do with it a persons ability to understand basic principals. It's a good thing you were not around to tell Einstein he wasn't qualified. Or tell Bill Gates he isn't qualified to write software.

The fact of the matter is I have laid out a couple reasons why power cables don't and can't make a difference. You have in no way been able to use your "qualifications" to either refute those claims or provide other reasonable explanation.

I say there are no secondary and tertiary effects on cable at 60hz A/C.

If there are please indulge us on what they are. Saying that I and the rest of the readership isn't qualified or intelligent enough to under stand these principals is both insulting and pompous.
post #84 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
I don't feel you have the qualification to comment on 2ndary and tertiary effects of the composition of cable on audio frequency band.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesebert View Post
I am not aware of any paper addressing issues of 2ndary and tiriary effect on cable at audio frequency.
post #85 of 229
This thread reminds me of this other one, which is very recent, and which eventually got closed.

Here we also have relatively new members (very low post counts) posting questions on a very argumentative topic that has been heavily discussed already in many other threads. The recurrence of the topic in spite of existing recent threads makes me wonder if these might be the same people using different accounts.
post #86 of 229
I can assure you I am a new member here.

I'm not even really trying to argue the merits of cables in the audio path. I'm arguing the ones in the power supply path (which in the long run is in the audio path but most of you are not qualified to understand it ).
post #87 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovkiller View Post
-What about the ones that have done it nad have heard absolutelly no differences, are they wrong also?

-Oh no, sorry they have no properly trained ears... (or a defective hearing what is worst)...

No they comapred a 150 dollar cable with a 150 dollar cable and found no difference, shocking in the same pricerange!

150 dollars and 3000 is a whole other league.
post #88 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by naamanf View Post
Plus being an audio nut over the last 20 years has taught me thing or two.
In your 20 years of being an "audio nut" have you actually tried any after market power cords in your systems?
post #89 of 229
Here is a paper on twisted pair and why its better. now 2 cables one with and one without twisting have the same RLC provided their physical dimension and material are the same. Just to give you some idea that there are differences besides RLC of a particular cable. Now magnetic flux and eddy current, skin effect, electron migration would be considered 2ndary effect IMO, and stuff like electron deposition on dielectric, and IMD on crystal boundaries would be tertiary effects IMO.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel1/15/1...isnumber=10367

I think I just like to stress that I know enough to know that I don't know everything, and as an engineer, I am willing to try, experiment and test different ideas and theories. I think you need to keep an open mind as someone whom are working in scientific/engineering field.
post #90 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
No they comapred a 150 dollar cable with a 150 dollar cable and found no difference, shocking in the same pricerange!

150 dollars and 3000 is a whole other league.
Why would you make that assumption? I compared $150 cables with $1500 cables. Specifically Cobalt with Cardas Golden Reference and Nordhost Valhallas.

Without knowing specifically which cables you are talking about, it is rather pointless to say $150 cables and $3000 cables are not in the same league.
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