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Any prove cables make a difference? - Page 7  

post #91 of 313
2/23/07 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reano View Post
At last FallenAngel this is more like it. Do you have a link for the cable that eventually won? So I can see the range may buy for my portable setup if they do and test it.

No ranting but straight to the point. Of course I would normally say yes you need more independence but ..... it's a good starting point that can be taken further. Any links apprieciated. Ultimately you are right Fallen I will ask for independence or I would just accept anything. Thats why I ask for independent reviews, etc (there are ton's that say the opposite and show that the participants couldn't hear no difference but thats not true for all audio components. Bet you can tell the difference between a hornet and a boostaroo (and the price is maybe $300 difference) the cables can be a lot more, etc.

I keep saying (zzzzzzzz...) I have brought these fancy cables I have loads for various applications and it doesn't hurt to get a reality check. I'm from UK and I remember a couple of lone voices (in politics) saying out don't go to Iraq there are no mass weapons and people thought they were cranks. Now they swing to the other side and I think they were asking the same question "where's the proof...."
Well, without getting into politics, let continue.

Not sure what you mean by "link for the cable that eventually won", since I made them all myself, but for personal preference, I enjoy the pure silver over cotton VenHaus variant the most with the bass heavy JJ 12AU7 tube in my SOHA and HD600 headphones. It places more emphasis on the highs and has enough detail that I like with the mellow Sennheisers. When I still had my Alessandro MS-2, with the same setup, I the Belden was warmer and was a better match for the Alessandro headphones.

Also, you mentioned thinking of them for a portable setup, unformtunately with how the cable is made, I don't think it would be possible (well, anything is possible, but it is not reasonably possible) to make this cable in any other configuration other than RCA-RCA. This cable is takes some serious time to build, but materials aren't too expensive. Of course, when I built this cable for others, a good 40% of the price is the work.

On the Belden 89259 side, HeartLand Cables has a Belden 89259 interconnect with Eichmann Copper Bullets for $55. That is a completely unbelievable price and SUPER worth it considering just the RCA's are $42 / 4. I bought a pair of these and was very happy with them. Then I chopped them in half and made 2 short pairs

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post #92 of 313
2/23/07 at 4:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourmaline View Post
Always nice to insult people.

the proof is in the "i want to learn about high end cables" thread. Instead of insulting people you don't really know, you should spend more time on the web to actually find the proof for yourself. There IS a website that measured commercial cables and proved the Nordost cables measured considderably better then any other cable. Also there is extensive info on the ohno process of making the single crystal cables and WHY they sound better then any other regular cable. These single crystal cables are usually used in the high end cables.

So, maybe, with your reasonably good education are looking in the wrong direction and are looking more into insulting people!

Your reasonably good education didn't teach you anything about manners!

sceptics are always ignorant: no matter how much proven or measurable evidence you provide, all they say is: those differences are too small to be heard. Maybe their minds are too small to comprehend.
Tour as before your contribution probably better placed elsewhere
post #93 of 313
2/23/07 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reano View Post
lol then why waste your time posting? If you have no proof to offer anyway? lol. Have to laugh. Like I said this is normally what results. ... Then don't answer lol.
You seem to have clear ideas about what's going on. Nevertheless you ask unanswerable questions, and this in dozens of posts. You can't prove that cables sound different to everybody. You can't even prove that HD 650 and K 701 sound different to everybody. Or a Singlepower Supra vs. a CMOY.


Quote:
You don't need to believe my interest. I have the cables, the rigs and asked a genuine question to which I must say is towards (arguments) the skeptics side and thats why I now lean towards there but am willing to be persuaded. What was your blind test what did it entail, what cables, etc?
It's no secret -- the configuration has been posted some time ago. But if you're looking for proof, it won't help you. There was no advocate present. However, we don't discuss blind tests in this forum (see the forum title).


Quote:
My motive I guess is I want to buy some more exotic cables but just want to hear from people if there is a hearing difference so I guess it's kind of a reality check. Are forums for this type of thing? Question, reviews, sharing ideas, etc?
Exactly! Ask for experiences with different cables! But of course you can also ask cable skeptics who have never seriously occupied themselves with the matter and/or are deaf for sonic subtleties about their ideologic objections against cable sound... Saves you a lot of money and thinking efforts.

If you want to know if cables or a specific cable makes a difference to your ears, the only way is to try them yourself. That's what I call reality check. Nobody can replace your ears.
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post #94 of 313
2/23/07 at 4:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilS View Post
1. I have criticized the "logic" of saying that "because people argue about whether cables make a difference, that proves they don't make a difference." That's just stupid.

2. My own view of whether cables make a difference is not based on logic per se, by on my own listening experiences. These have been detailed in my many prior threads, but to summarize:

a) I used to be a died-in-the-wool skeptic who criticized others who thought cables made a difference. At one point, however, after my headphone system reached a certain quality, and I had more experience in listening to various components, the differences between CD players, amps, and even cables became noticeable.
People are very touchy around here (not speaking to you Phils) I would like to pick up on your point in section a) <--- Just in case you think I'm criticizing. I keep asking for proof and I try to make my responses as curtious as possible. Where I think someone is just out to vent anger I ask them to kindly contribute elsewhere. Just thought I'd clear that up so if I come across all polite it's on purpose because Ive had this before where people say "you just come on here to hurt our feelings" or similar. I keep stressing I am one of those that have had all these cables in very good kit where cable changes 'should' be "hearable". Maybe I should keep saying this as some are saying this as if I've just come from a background to just slate people. I kindly ask for evidence that where it can be presented and tested by others.
Let me put it another way. If you get a pair of speakers against another brand, two cars different brand, scissors, alot of things you could design a test and say that charateristic is an improvement or better than that. In this case we are talking about hearing. When it comes to cables .... I'm going to stick my head out here and say no one has provided evidence where they can say take my cable and go and test it with another reasonable quality cable (can be cheap but obvious must function) and you will hear the difference (and even add a few people in the mix too and they'll hear it). Yet you CAN do this with various other audio components. Why is this so offensive to people I really am not criticizing, trying to upset people, etc lol I have to laugh. That is all I'm asking. I promise you if you can give me that cable I will be the first to praise you and buy the cable no problem whatsoever. I don't think I can say fairer than that really. I really have no issue with saying wow your damn right!! I used to love my midi system and thought no need for me to go to 'seperates' till I started on the path of buying seperates 20 years ago. Cables though, is the general concensus they are so subjective you just have to make up your own mind if you like. You can pay hundreds of dollars for them, is this a placebo effect (you hear what you want or no?). I know in advertising like say health tablets, etc you couldn't say if you take this it will stop cancer without some proof, etc.
post #95 of 313
2/23/07 at 4:59pm
Why do you need proof? Listen, if you hear an improvement, great, enjoy your new cable. If not, great, enjoy saving money!
post #96 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post

If you want to know if cables or a specific cable makes a difference to your ears, the only way is to try them yourself. That's what I call reality check. Nobody can replace your ears.
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So Jazz your conclusion is 'you don't know but if it makes you happy go with it, I have no proof to offer?'...
post #97 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
reano...

...as rsaavedra already stated, you won't get any proof from people on this forum. And to be honest, I doubt your honest interest anyway -- too much bias towards posts from the skeptics corner. And first of all: your post inflation. You're trying too hard to seize this thread with -- as I perceive it -- inquisition-like questions masked with a matey manner.

So I renounce to answer your «personal» question, just out of my intuitive lack of sympathy for your kind of self-presentation. Personally I have no proof to offer anyway. My own blind-test success will tell nothing to the matter.
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He asked a simple question. Is there any proof? All he got was opinions. There is absolutely no proof that there is any sonic difference between cables. That's the answer.
post #98 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post
Why do you need proof? Listen, if you hear an improvement, great, enjoy your new cable. If not, great, enjoy saving money!
Gawk if you read my responses I have covered this I have said what will happen is people tend to get upset and say

1) Why you criticizing me
2) Just go with what you want I can't offer no proof of what I claim.

I guess you are saying the same right? Just in case (for others) as this is funny no need to respond with this as it doesn't add to the question
post #99 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reano View Post
So Jazz your conclusion is 'you don't know but if it makes you happy go with it, I have no proof to offer?'...
Exactly! That's what I was trying to convey you. As well as everybody else who has posted so far. What are you expecting?
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post #100 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
You seem to have clear ideas about what's going on. Nevertheless you ask unanswerable questions, and this in dozens of posts. You can't prove that cables sound different to everybody. You can't even prove that HD 650 and K 701 sound different to everybody. Or a Singlepower Supra vs. a CMOY.
.
I ask unanswerable question? The answer could be yes or no. If you believe you hear the difference how do you know it's just not placebo effect? If I asked you how do you know your car is faster than that one. You could easily say hey come and drive and see for yourself. Can you do this with the cables? But all of a sudden our hearings are all so grossly different but our other senses pretty similar? You say you can't even prove certain things to 'everybody' Isn't that true with a lot of things. I can drive a Ferrari and say it is faster than a mini. May not 'everyone' will accept it but ..... I don't need to go down that road it's so obvious.
post #101 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
Exactly! That's what I was trying to convey you. As well as everybody else who has posted so far. What are you expecting?
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Jazz we agree on something.

I'm getting a good reality check it's placebo? If you feel good about it spend the cash even though you don't have any proof it offers any discernable difference to a reasonable good and cheap cable? (Note again I have the cables, I love my RnB cable mini for ipod, Love my Stefan Audioart for Senn HD650. Have my eichmann bullet plugs with solid core for my phono's from my Linn, zzz I'm sleeping ....) but just wanted to ask if people could help me find some provable discernable difference between a good cheap cable and the exotic expensive ones. As I would do for most things I pay extra for or spend time making, etc
post #102 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhm5 View Post
He asked a simple question. Is there any proof? All he got was opinions. There is absolutely no proof that there is any sonic difference between cables. That's the answer.
And there's no proof that there isn't. It's an open question at this point, with evidence on both sides of the issue.

But there is also no "proof" that other components sound different, and yet many seem to accept that they do sound different (e.g., amps, sources).

And I think the problem people have -- and I admit they may be overreacting -- is that it is pretty easy to get the impression from the OP's posts that he is not seeking knowledge, but rather he is seeking to advance a particular point of view.
post #103 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reano View Post
I keep asking for proof and I try to make my responses as curtious as possible.
You didn't ask me for proof in your earlier question to me. You asked if I heard a difference and I told you what I heard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reano View Post
I'm going to stick my head out here and say no one has provided evidence where they can say take my cable and go and test it with another reasonable quality cable (can be cheap but obvious must function) and you will hear the difference (and even add a few people in the mix too and they'll hear it).
Why should we be held accountable if you can't hear something. Go buy a cheap Rat Shack cable and compare it to a decent $500 cable (or whatever) in a decent system and if you can't hear the difference, then conclude whatever you want (e.g., cables don't sound different, you have bad ears, whatever). Your personal experience proves nothing regarding the larger issue, and it proves nothing regarding what anybody else can hear, although your personal experience presumably should guide you on what you spend your money on, and it may be relevant (but not conclusive) regarding the larger issue.

But this insistence on "proof" does seem to be designed just to foster an argument. No offense, but that's the perception that you're creating with your comments.
post #104 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilS View Post
And there's no proof that there isn't. It's an open question at this point, with evidence on both sides of the issue.

But there is also no "proof" that other components sound different, and yet many seem to accept that they do sound different (e.g., amps, sources).

And I think the problem people have -- and I admit they may be overreacting -- is that it is pretty easy to get the impression from the OP's posts that he is not seeking knowledge, but rather he is seeking to advance a particular point of view.
HI Phils to answer your point. There is 'proof' to the contrary. For some examples read through the posts with links. Proof's and is all about reproducibility.

Who said there is no proof that components don't sound different? I could 'prove' to you that my Linn LP12 sounds better than my project expression turntable by just getting people in a room (and say I'll play on both which sounds better to your ears) Phils do you really believe components don't sound better? I have when starting out thought this (20 years back but I know components make a difference) home this doesn't sound bad but my wife is my ultimate test monkey (hope she doesn't know me from my alias) and say I changed the plasma TV and if she goes hey that looks a lot better (even though I thought it already) it backs me up. I've changed other stuff and it's a completely different reaction (this is an extreme example to illustrate).

Phils glad you put the last point in. I'm 37 and don't have time for games. I'm asking a serious question. I buy cables, hifi gear, I tweak, I tinker, etc I do all that and like I keep saying I'm after some hard proof but I think the message I'm getting loud and clear is there isn't any. Unlike other components.

When I say (to some) "Please don't post here" I really don't want to be rude but to me it seems obvious that you have got the wrong end of where I'm coming from and so this is not the post for you. Best to go cuss someone elsewhere. I HAVE BROUGHT THE CABLES, AND THE STUFF I SHOULD BE DEFENDING IT but I just can't see it....
post #105 of 313
2/23/07 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reano View Post
If you believe you hear the difference how do you know it's just not placebo effect?
Because I trust my ears. Like my other senses.

If I asked you to prove that two headphones or amps sound different -- how would you try to do this?


Quote:
If you feel good about it spend the cash even though you don't have any proof it offers any discernable difference to a reasonable good and cheap cable?
I can't even prove that I really live. But somehow I feel that I do. And that's enough for me. I don't need any proof with cables, because I get the benefit from good cables (more precisely: synergetic cable characteristics) without it. If I would need proof for every hi-fi component, I wouldn't own a hi-fi setup now.


Quote:
(Note again I have the cables, I love my RnB cable mini for ipod, Love my Stefan Audioart for Senn HD650. Have my Eichmann bullet plugs with solid core for my phono's from my Linn, zzz I'm sleeping ....) but just wanted to ask if people could help me find some provable discernable difference between a good cheap cable and the exotic expensive ones.
And I say you won't get what you want. I do you a favor by telling you this, so you don't have to ask any further (...and waste forum space ).

What you need is more self-confidence! Being skeptic is good, but not trusting yourself and your own senses -- for things meant to be judged and appreciated by your senses -- is bad. Get a pair of cables with money-back guarantee! I can't help you any further because I make most of my cables myself, except for headphone cables.
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